Awe is Not a Side Hustle (Season 2, Episode 14)
Awe is Not a Side Hustle (Season 2, Episode 14)
Today’s episode is about awe and creativity, remembering God made the world beautiful. We can image him though creating beautiful things. We tend to get stuck thinking that hobbies and creativity are only useful if they are a side hustle. So today, Maddy, Rach and Bec chat about incorporating creativity, beauty, and awe into our everyday lives.
Today, we explore:
🎧 Things we love to do, not because we are good at it, or getting paid for it.
🎧 Challenges we face in our culture and church communities around creativity
🎧 Gospel truths that help us pursue creativity and awe
🎧 The nitty gritty: how we pursue awe and creativity in our everyday lives.
You can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.
If you prefer to read, the transcript of the episode is at the bottom of the show notes 👍🏻
Also, if this chat resonated with you, can I commend Origin Collective to you? They’re a ministry of Freo Church that serves to equip and encourage Christian creatives. They run so many beautiful workshops and live music shows. Get onto it!
Mentioned in today’s episode:
Salt Acid Fat Heat by Samin Nosrat
Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus
What Kind of Woman: Poems by Kate Baer
The Hidden Art of Homemaking by Edith Schaeffer (it’s recently available on Spotify!)
John Batiste turning Mozart into B.B. King
Interview with Tenielle Neda in Season 1 - What I Learned When I Felt Alone, where she talks about the shift in her career from secular music to music glorifying God and not herself.
“Because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged. They always say, "Do it again"; and the grown-up person does it again until he is nearly dead. For grown-up people are not strong enough to exult in monotony. But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, "Do it again" to the sun; and every evening, "Do it again" to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike; it may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them. It may be that He has the eternal appetite of infancy; for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we.” GK Chesterton in his book, Orthodoxy.
Reframing, Rewiring and Renewing the Romans 12:2 Way - The Faith Filled Therapist podcast
Bible verses
“The human spirit can endure in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear?” (Proverbs 18:14)
“A person can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in their own toil. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment?” (Ecclesiastes 2:24-25)
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.” (John 10:10)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22-23)
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)
“Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.” (Ephesians 3:21-22)
Host bios
Bec is married to Zac and they have three boys. She became a Christian at 18 years old after someone read the gospel of Luke with her. She trained as a Clinical Psychologist before founding Stories I’d Tell You at Dinner and The After Dinner Mint podcast. She is a regular contributor to Part Time Poets and The Gospel Coalition Australia. Her spiritual gift is losing things. You can find more at The Sunday Morning Snuggle.
Rach is a part time Emergency Clinical Nurse, full time wife and mum. She works in a metro emergency department and thrives on the adrenaline filled atmosphere of the critical care environment. On her days off, she’s ferrying her three kids to school and their various activities, listening to podcasts with one AirPod in, sending memes to her husband, and dreaming about what to cook for dinner.
Maddy Rhodes is married to Robbie. Together they delight in their four year old son, baby daughter, and very sooky dog. She loves to read, run, drink coffee, and generally spend time with her family and friends. Maddy understands herself as a sinner in need of grace, and feels continually blessed to know the Lord Jesus as she wrestles with the task of endeavouring to rely not on herself, but on him.
Transcript
00:01.62
Rachel
Hi guys, welcome back to the After Dinner Mint podcast
00:04.54
Rachel
My name is Rachel and I'm going to be leading today's podcast session with Bec and Maddy. So, if you've been listening for a while, you've heard our bios about who we are and what we do with our day to day during the week.
00:17.12
Rachel
We're going to try something a little bit new today and we're going to do a bit of a silly icebreaker. If you want to read our bios, you can read them in the show notes. All right, Bec and Maddy, if you got to have a skill without having to
00:28.15
Rachel
work on it or learn it, what would you want it to be? Bec, you go first.
00:34.14
Bec
Okay, have two things. Firstly, I would like to be Keanu Reeves. it Like Keanu Reeves, don't want to be Keanu Reeves in The Matrix and just download like ninja skills.
00:44.02
Rachel
Yes.
00:44.75
Bec
You know, someone tried to attack me in the car park. I'd be like, I'm immediately a black belt. Like I didn't have to try.
00:49.30
Rachel
Yeah.
00:49.62
Bec
I thought about this a lot.
00:50.96
Rachel
That is cool.
00:51.79
Bec
And the other thing, yeah.
00:53.23
Maddy
Very practical.
00:54.32
Rachel
Mm.
00:54.67
Bec
The other thing I would like, it's so practical. It is practical.
00:56.60
Rachel
Mm.
00:58.75
Bec
and the other thing I would like to do is know how to make my own clothes.
00:57.91
Maddy
Yep.
01:01.63
Bec
Like there's a girl at church and she makes her own clothes and she makes these really cool clothes. And I’m kind of just jealous and, but I'm not patient enough to learn. I mean, I would also like to know how to edit my own clothes that I find at the op shop to just take up.
01:15.22
Rachel
Yes, I love, I'm addicted to that content.
01:17.82
Bec
hey I know.
01:17.74
Rachel
Oh, people who go to like buy stuff in the art shop and then make it cool.
01:18.70
Bec
Yes.
01:19.35
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
01:19.54
Bec
Yes.
01:19.91
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
01:21.46
Rachel
Oh, that's yeah, that's a good that's a good one.
01:23.34
Bec
Oh, I know.
01:23.96
Rachel
Fair.
01:25.10
Bec
and I know. That would be cool. I just like to know.
01:28.18
Rachel
All right.
01:28.40
Bec
I don't want learn. I just want to know. Yeah.
01:30.58
Rachel
Maddie, what's yours?
01:31.05
Bec
Maddie.
01:32.69
Maddy
Yeah, look, I can't relate to the sewing one because I'm just like, I have grandmas who do that.
01:36.94
Rachel
Yes.
01:38.25
Rachel
That's fair. Yeah.
01:41.94
Bec
oh
01:42.13
Maddy
But they're amazing.
01:42.38
Rachel
That's nice.
01:43.54
Maddy
They're awesome. But if I had a skill that I could immediately acquire, I don't know, I had two really random things. I only just thought of it, but two really random things that came in my head. And one was guitar.
01:53.75
Maddy
Like I would love to just know how to play guitar. I can play very basically, but like if I could play guitar well, that would be amazing.
02:01.58
Rachel
The amount of campfires you could enrich.
02:04.17
Maddy
Yeah. The amount of like, yes, so cool.
02:08.59
Rachel
Christians love that.
02:08.78
Maddy
I'll be one of those kids.
02:09.79
Rachel
They absolutely love it.
02:11.59
Maddy
They love a campfire guitarist.
02:12.63
Bec
Christian's love like a guitar.
02:12.89
Rachel
They love it.
02:14.60
Maddy
And marshmallows.
02:15.59
Rachel
Yes.
02:16.07
Maddy
But the other thing that read, the first thing that popped into my head...
02:17.93
Bec
You want to know how to make marshmallows? Oh,
02:19.66
Rachel
Yeah.
02:20.07
Maddy
The first thing that popped into my head when I read this question was hang gliding. And I was like, I just, I don't want to have to train to do that.
02:23.97
Rachel
Oh!
02:25.80
Bec
good.
02:27.05
Rachel
No.
02:27.63
Maddy
But how cool would it be to just be able to hang glide?
02:28.71
Rachel
That would be very cool.
02:30.85
Maddy
How cool. Anyway, it's just a really random skill, but that's the one.
02:34.34
Bec
like good
02:34.54
Rachel
You don't have to train if you only want to hang glide once.
02:47.33
Maddy
Oh, man.
02:48.36
Rachel
Yeah.
02:48.83
Maddy
Oh, dear.
02:49.83
Rachel
I think that's called something else.
02:50.19
Maddy
That's still not a skill.
02:51.56
Rachel
No, that's true.
02:51.75
Maddy
if you Anyway.
02:52.62
Rachel
That is true.
02:53.61
Maddy
All right. Rach, what would yours be?
02:56.01
Bec
called overconfidence.
02:56.81
Rachel
Yes. Yeah. My first I had a random first thought too. My first thought was, I want to be one of those people. It's not really a skill, but I want to be one of those people that enjoys running.
03:08.39
Rachel
You know, those people that are like, I run and I love it and it feels so good.
03:10.46
Bec
Oh.
03:11.39
Rachel
It's like, I just hate it so much.
03:12.10
Bec
Yes. This is.
03:12.69
Maddy
Yes. I love running.
03:16.54
Rachel
I don't,
03:16.15
Bec
I hate it. And I have tried to understand from people who love running.
03:18.73
Rachel
I
03:19.15
Bec
I'm like, explain to me. and they're like if you just ran and they write they give you a running plan. And I'm like, but why?
03:23.81
Rachel
I don't wish to, but I would love to like the skill is to enjoy it. Cause was like, I can run, but I, unless something's chasing me, I don't want to.
03:30.38
Bec
Yeah.
03:33.00
Rachel
so that was the first thing. that But I would also love to be some sort of like savant with a musical instrument. I'd love to be able to play the piano really. Like I can play the piano, but not very well. Like an instrument that I didn't have to practice would be very nice.
03:46.03
Rachel
So, hey, yeah.
03:46.50
Maddy
That would be nice.
03:48.21
Rachel
Anyway, yeah.
03:49.71
Bec
there is a guy playing, I think it's Mozart, and I forget his name, and then he starts like bringing in the blues on the R&B.
03:57.46
Rachel
I've seen that.
03:57.79
Bec
He's just like a savant with like the piano.
03:58.80
Rachel
Yes.
03:59.15
Bec
Have you seen that?
03:59.35
Rachel
John Batiste.
03:59.70
Maddy
So cool.
03:59.92
Rachel
Yes. He's amazing. Yep. And then he goes into like gospel that bit. Yep. Amazing.
04:04.88
Bec
Yes, yes, I was actually just speechless.
04:06.58
Rachel
Me too.
04:06.85
Bec
I had to watch it again and again.
04:07.60
Rachel
Yes.
04:08.98
Bec
Yeah, yeah.
04:08.95
Rachel
I love, yeah, he's amazing.
04:09.38
Maddy
Incredible.
04:10.74
Rachel
He was weirdly the pianist.
04:12.50
Bec
If you could just do that with no work.
04:13.20
Rachel
Yeah. On Stephen Colbert, the late show. He was his like resident musician for a long time. don't know John Batiste. There you Anyway.
04:23.22
Rachel
but
04:23.69
Maddy
Random effect.
04:24.46
Rachel
Yes.
04:24.70
Bec
Oh, Jean-Baptiste.
04:25.72
Rachel
Yeah, like Baptist but with an E on the end.
04:26.20
Bec
That's so cool. Is he married to,
04:28.48
Rachel
I'm full of these. I could go to a Quiz night right now.
04:30.51
Maddy
I love
04:31.66
Bec
is he married to Suleika Jaoud? She does like the isolation journals on Substack.
04:35.82
Rachel
Maybe.
04:37.55
Bec
Anyway, maybe, maybe that's the one.
04:38.59
Maddy
it. have no idea.
04:39.23
Rachel
We'll Google it later. Anyway, we're already off track and we haven't even started.
04:41.51
Bec
I don't know. I'll Google it. it's Anyway, taken us down a rabbit hole.
04:44.03
Rachel
All right. okay
04:45.84
Bec
Get us on the track.
04:46.57
Rachel
Okay. Lovely. today's episode is slightly more upbeat than, because we've had a few heavier ones, so we're going to take things up a notch. It's about awe and creativity. Remembering God made the world beautiful and we can imagine him through creating beautiful things.
05:03.35
Rachel
We tend to get stuck on thinking that hobbies and creativity are only useful if they're a side hustle or productive, but we want to explore how we can incorporate creativity, beauty and awe into every day.
05:15.93
Rachel
So, question number one, what are some things that you just love to do, not because you're getting paid or because you're great at it? Thinking something correct. Oh, sorry.
05:27.13
Rachel
Sorry. I'm going to say that question again. Question one, what are some things that you just love to do, not because you're getting paid money for it or because you're great at it? Maddie, you want to go first?
05:39.64
Maddy
Yeah, sure. I was thinking about this and I just, I actually just love cooking. Like I love being in the kitchen, experimenting with different flavours and You know, I read, I think we've talked about this before, that book, Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat, and the way that you combine like an acid with a salt or the timing that you use.
05:47.84
Bec
Hmm.
06:00.47
Bec
Hmm.
06:00.48
Maddy
Like I love cooking as a science, like it's kind of weird, but when you but when you like combine certain flavours and it actually just like something comes out really, really well, that is something I love, like just experimenting in the kitchen.
06:02.74
Rachel
Yeah.
06:13.01
Bec
Hmm.
06:15.86
Rachel
Have you read the book Lessons in Chemistry? It's a novel.
06:20.20
Maddy
Oh, I've got it on my bedside table. Worth it.
06:21.94
Rachel
It's so it's, it's about other stuff, but it's literally about, she does, it has a cooking show, and but she's a scientist. You'll really like it if you like that. That's a big side note, but yeah.
06:31.18
Maddy
Yes.
06:31.86
Rachel
Yes.
06:32.85
Maddy
Yes.
06:32.90
Rachel
That's a good one.
06:33.21
Maddy
Well, that's on, it's on my list.
06:33.38
Rachel
I love cooking too. There you go.
06:35.57
Maddy
Yeah.
06:36.54
Rachel
I read it at my cool book club because I'm an adult.
06:37.28
Maddy
exit
06:40.74
Maddy
Oh, adults.
06:41.74
Rachel
I know. her i know.
06:43.18
Bec
so jealous.
06:43.79
Rachel
Yes.
06:45.33
Bec
book club
06:46.13
Rachel
Cooking is a very good one. You like cooking too, Beck, don't you?
06:50.06
Bec
I love cooking. It's legitimately my hobby.
06:52.51
Rachel
Yeah, same. Are we all just going to say cooking?
06:54.13
Bec
I mean, I also really like to eat.
06:54.25
Maddy
Yeah.
06:55.00
Rachel
This is going be really boring.
06:55.69
Bec
so, I mean, I have other hobbies.
06:58.45
Maddy
Tell us.
06:59.44
Rachel
Yeah.
06:59.79
Bec
I'm happy to list. Maddie, tell us.
07:00.46
Rachel
Yeah, tell us. What are your other ones?
07:01.62
Bec
Or is cooking your number one? My hands like this.
07:03.82
Maddy
Oh, no, I mean, cooking is definitely my number one, is but is the thing.
07:05.23
Bec
Okay.
07:05.66
Rachel
Cooking's your thing? No.
07:07.93
Maddy
But I also have this random side thing where I don't get time to do it very much, but I do actually love watercolours, like doing really simple little watercolour paintings.
07:09.28
Rachel
What?
07:16.16
Rachel
Ooh.
07:17.97
Bec
Oh.
07:19.06
Maddy
I am not, I am no artist, like in any sense. Usually it's like I'll write, I'll make a card, like oh that's as much as I do as I power like do a watercolour as a card, like a birthday card or something.
07:31.92
Rachel
a
07:32.06
Maddy
And it's, they're really simple and they're not actually that good. Usually I just, I have this half-finished look and I'll be like, that's my style, but I'm actually a perfectionist and I don't know how to finish the painting.
07:40.22
Rachel
Yeah, man.
07:43.34
Maddy
So usually like, oh, it's just this half-finished one.
07:43.88
Rachel
Watercolour's very forgiving that way, though.
07:46.66
Maddy
Yeah.
07:46.70
Rachel
Watercolour's very forgiving and it looks artistic even if it's not... Yeah, that's cool.
07:51.38
Maddy
Yeah, I just like playing with it, but I don't get as much time to as I would like to. But, yeah, it's just that's very I find that very relaxing as well as kind of a creative output and seeing like the beauty and all the colours that that mix. and, yeah, I just really do enjoy that.
08:08.95
Rachel
Nice. Alright, back cooking, what else?
08:11.60
Bec
That's awesome. Yeah, so cooking and eating.
08:14.54
Rachel
I mean you can talk more about eating.
08:15.86
Bec
I also really, pardon?
08:16.95
Rachel
Yeah. Mm.
08:17.40
Maddy
And eating.
08:18.64
Rachel
eighteen
08:19.06
Maddy
I love that you said, and eating.
08:20.27
Rachel
yes
08:20.50
Maddy
was like, yep, that was good. Good specification.
08:22.03
Bec
And eating. Yeah, I learned how to cook because I really like to eat.
08:28.50
Bec
But I also really like poetry, which is quite weird, because I didn't really read it until a couple of years ago, but I got into it. I read Kate. Kate Baer she had a poetry collection she was on Instagram and then she had this poetry collection called What Kind of a Woman and I read it and I was like oh my goodness is this poetry and kind of just started writing it and I was like I don't I'm a wild perfectionist but I was just like I'm just going to keep doing this I don't care that it's bad and slowly I mean I like to hope over a couple of years it's improved but same as the watercolours I just like doing it and it's much less work than an is essay
08:45.74
Rachel
Mm.
08:57.52
Rachel
Mmm.
09:00.98
Rachel
Mmm.
09:02.11
Maddy
True.
09:03.03
Rachel
Yes. and
09:04.76
Bec
And arranging flowers,
09:05.37
Rachel
And it only has to make sense to you.
09:09.11
Bec
Yes.
09:09.91
Rachel
You don't have to convince someone else of the point. I love poetry too, actually. There's a line from a, it's actually, it's from a book, but I heard it and I was like, that is possibly the most poetic thing I've ever heard.
09:15.24
Bec
It's so great.
09:22.89
Rachel
And it was, it's actually, I can't remember what the book is called, but it's about two lovers.
09:24.60
Bec
Mm.
09:29.88
Rachel
And the line is, I would know you in the dark if I was blind and you were mute. And I was like; that's like the most wonderful thing I've ever heard.
09:39.67
Rachel
They're like, yeah.
09:41.17
Maddy
No. I love that's stuck into your brain.
09:42.54
Rachel
Anyway, I like poetry too. stuck into my brain, yeah. that's and that's what, yeah. Mine was also cooking, actually, because I I love to cook.
09:53.04
Bec
It's great.
09:54.98
Rachel
I don't, I'm very bad at cleaning afterwards, but I love cook. But it's also so, especially cooking, not baking, because baking is too high, so high like, stakes.
10:01.54
Bec
It's unnecessary, Abel.
10:05.46
Rachel
But cooking, you can fix stuff. You're just like, I can re-emulsify that.
10:08.39
Maddy
Yeah.
10:09.12
Rachel
I can put some lemon juice in it, whatever. but yeah.
10:13.39
Maddy
I can put some souls over it.
10:13.47
Bec
Yeah, yeah,
10:13.61
Rachel
Yeah.
10:14.36
Maddy
No, I'm
10:14.75
Rachel
Yeah. And then my other thing that I like to do is to sing. I like to sing.
10:20.49
Maddy
good.
10:21.62
Rachel
Sing.
10:22.04
Bec
You sing so well, man.
10:22.97
Rachel
And I like, this I don't know if either of you have Apple Music, but they have a thing on it now where you can turn down the singing on the track and it just has the backing track.
10:33.38
Rachel
So, you can just do your own karaoke and it's the best thing ever.
10:33.90
Maddy
Cool.
10:36.34
Rachel
So, I just sing karaoke with myself in the car all the time.
10:36.54
Bec
What?
10:39.93
Rachel
So fun.
10:40.34
Maddy
That's awesome.
10:41.26
Rachel
It's really good. Yeah. Yeah.
11:10.07
Maddy
Tell me this though, if we all have cooking, you got to answer me this.
11:12.71
Maddy
What's your favourite cuisine to cook?
11:15.43
Rachel
tie.
11:17.08
Maddy
Thai.
11:17.41
Bec
Don't do this to me.
11:18.48
Maddy
Cool.
11:18.95
Rachel
It's very easy.
11:19.86
Maddy
I don't.
11:19.89
Rachel
Fish sauce, lime juice, sugar, delicious.
11:23.54
Maddy
Yeah.
11:24.18
Rachel
It's always good. Yeah.
11:26.93
Maddy
You don't do the funny leaves and stuff like, you know, well, cool.
11:26.95
Rachel
That's fresh. Yeah, I do kaffir lime leaves. I do lots of stuff, man. in
11:33.52
Maddy
I always get turned away.
11:34.08
Bec
I don't need to cook Thai.
11:34.47
Maddy
Cause there's some of those.
11:34.83
Bec
I don't need to cook Thai because my neighbour is Thai.
11:36.91
Rachel
tell yeah, that's handy.
11:38.45
Maddy
that is handy.
11:38.70
Bec
and She brings me beautiful food.
11:39.79
Maddy
Amazing.
11:40.35
Bec
I'm sorry. I need the hand.
11:41.78
Rachel
Do you have any jokes?
11:44.05
Maddy
No, what's yours? What's yours Beck?
11:47.82
Bec
I'm torn. I don't know how I would live without Italian in my life, but I also cook a lot of Mexican and a lot of Asian. Like, so
11:54.08
Maddy
Hmm.
11:56.82
Rachel
Alright, that's fine.
11:57.53
Maddy
Yeah, I'm like, I'm
11:58.33
Bec
maybe Italian because I don't think I could function without it.
11:59.77
Rachel
Yeah, fair.
12:01.49
Maddy
in like Middle Eastern land.
12:03.91
Rachel
Mmm.
12:04.43
Maddy
Love a bit of like Moroccan and stuff.
12:05.14
Bec
Oh, yum.
12:06.13
Rachel
Yum.
12:06.53
Maddy
So tasty.
12:07.08
Rachel
I love pomegranate.
12:08.04
Bec
Yum.
12:08.22
Rachel
Put it on everything.
12:09.11
Maddy
Oh, how good.
12:09.84
Rachel
So good.
12:09.98
Bec
have a pomegranate tree. Yes.
12:12.31
Rachel
Do you? oh
12:13.53
Maddy
Friends.
12:14.26
Rachel
mean I know where you live.
12:14.65
Bec
yes
12:15.10
Rachel
I'm gonna come steal some.
12:17.59
Bec
I have so many pomegranates right now.
12:18.90
Rachel
I'll come by your house.
12:19.70
Rachel
I will. Alright, cool.
12:22.10
Bec
Do it.
12:22.38
Maddy
track
12:23.15
Rachel
Lovely. Okay. Well, given that we're all Christian women and this is a Christian women podcast, what challenges do we face in our culture and church communities around creativity?
12:36.74
Rachel
Maddie went first last time, so Bec, you've got to go now.
12:41.43
Bec
Okay. I think it can go one of two ways.
12:45.13
Rachel
Hmm.
12:46.26
Bec
I reckon you can get really stuck on productivity. So, you're like, I need to be good at it. And if I'm not good at it, I don't want waste my time. Or like it needs to be a side hustle. I need to turn it into something. Like it needs to serve a purpose.
12:59.81
Bec
So, then you kind of tend not to do it because you think, well, what's the point? Like why would I do this if it's just going fun? Like don't be weird. Like there's that.
13:06.91
Rachel
Yeah.
13:07.36
Bec
Yeah.
13:10.94
Bec
What was the other one? I had another point. Because did think about this. And the other one, yeah, no, actually it was that. It was like either it has to have an end game or you kind of, it's embarrassing to learn in public.
13:25.69
Rachel
Mm. I think a big one, because obviously music is such a big part of church, is it's such a hard one where there is a certain level of like polishedness and a level of skill you do need to have, particularly if you're going to be on the music team, because you not being good at your instrument or your singing can be very distracting and very like not helpful to the congregation for sort of, you know, communal worship.
13:52.07
Rachel
But then it's also that thing of, you know, if I'm making a joyful noise to the Lord and I'm used like, is that, that can't be bad, but it is, it's, I find that a real hard thing in, because I've been to some churches that are like, yeah, we do auditions.
14:06.80
Rachel
You have to be up to a certain standard to be on the music team. And then I've been, I've, I've been in other music teams where it's like, whoever's give that random lady a tambourine. Sure. Whatever. And like there's pros and cons to both.
14:16.72
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
14:18.76
Rachel
And I think you can probably work on a God with both, but I, there's,
14:20.70
Bec
Have you seen that reel?
14:24.31
Rachel
there's definitely like both people have points because I think there is a certain amount of like we want to give God our best.
14:28.48
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
14:30.01
Rachel
We want to have excellence. Like I'm talking mostly about music because music is a real big thing at church, as we know. Yeah. But and I don't know what the answer is because I think, yeah, yeah. I mean, I suppose the answer to everything is always the heart behind it.
14:47.06
Rachel
But yeah, it's a hard one.
14:49.99
Maddy
So, like perfectionism is the main one.
14:51.18
Bec
I'm going to contribute something very serious.
14:52.40
Rachel
Oh wait, yeah. yeah.
14:54.26
Bec
oh Sorry, I was going to contribute something very serious, which is there is a reel.
14:56.59
Rachel
Go.
14:59.73
Rachel
Yeah.
15:00.66
Bec
And it's like, guys, don't be weird. I'm inviting a friend to church this week. And it's just the lady with the tambourine.
15:04.83
Rachel
I've seen that. Oh, yeah.
15:07.63
Bec
They're just hollering.
15:09.57
Rachel
Yeah.
15:09.69
Bec
Yep.
15:12.05
Rachel
Yeah.
15:12.98
Maddy
Oh yeah.
15:14.24
Rachel
I've been, I've been to that church. And I'm not going to lie, the tambourine, it was pretty distracting. But we have, you know, the 90s were a weird time for church songs anyway, so that's fine.
15:27.95
Rachel
Yeah.
15:28.94
Maddy
No, so are you, you know, in terms of like whether, you know, spending time on music or, you know, doing wanting to do something well, do you reckon kind of perfectionism or like, you know, sometimes not working on a skill if you're not actually sure you can do it well, like there's a like, you know, not being creative outwardly because you don't want to be criticised by other people.
15:55.60
Maddy
is a barrier in our culture.
15:57.67
Bec
Yeah.
15:57.93
Maddy
do you reckon?
15:57.96
Rachel
Yeah, absolutely.
15:58.45
Maddy
Like worrying about what other people are thinking of us and also going like, oh, I want to put myself out there in that way.
16:00.46
Bec
o
16:04.67
Maddy
like it's quite vulnerable to be creative and to then put your creativity out there.
16:07.82
Rachel
Yes, absolutely.
16:10.59
Maddy
Like you actually are being extremely vulnerable because you actually are expressing yourself through your art, whether it's like music or, and, and you know, we could go down like this culture would say, that's us being an individual.
16:10.95
Rachel
Hmm.
16:25.30
Maddy
You do you. That's like, you know, the, the whole, that cultural framework, but yeah,
16:28.18
Rachel
Yeah.
16:44.18
Maddy
And so, it's kind of hard, but it is still kind hard to, like, yeah, when you feel self-conscious about something that you're doing to share in the creative sphere.
16:52.08
Rachel
Yeah.
16:53.54
Maddy
Yeah.
17:04.27
Maddy
Oh, God.
17:07.70
Rachel
It is like, it's a high risk. It's a high-risk thing. Yeah. Yeah.
17:14.20
Bec
Like it's interesting to think about like also how do you be creative, like those creative gifts that are not so much like I’m I'm a musician and I'm at a certain standard.
17:24.25
Rachel
Hmm.
17:25.93
Bec
Like there's this ministry called Origin Collective and they're based out in Fremantle like and, you know, there's lots in – creative people there. But what's interesting is like once a year they run this conference.
17:36.95
Bec
It's called like a faith and arts conference, but there's stuff that I have never considered.
17:38.52
Maddy
Yeah.
17:40.38
Bec
Like I went last year, there was like a dance workshop. There was a photography workshop. You know, there was writing, but there was like all other kinds of stuff and like live gigs, but just,
17:48.64
Rachel
yeah
17:51.81
Bec
think There's lots of stuff that you wouldn't normally consider or tap as like, I mean, there was a massive art installation as well, like these huge ones all through the hall and paintings and stuff that you wouldn't normally, yeah, consider in the mainstream service.
17:59.05
Maddy
yeah
18:00.64
Rachel
Mm-hmm.
18:06.50
Rachel
Actually, that's funny you said that because I literally went to a like a community art show in the bush last week and it was like community artists made art with stuff from the bush and some of our friends were like, we didn't we actually didn't know and we went there and some of our friends had made art and she'd made this massive hanging like bird out of bark and things and my son looked at her and it was really cool but he's like, how did you do that?
18:31.98
Rachel
And she said, oh, if you look around the back, you can see how I connected everything.
18:34.02
Bec
Mm.
18:35.58
Rachel
And she said, you know I like to think of it like how God sees, you know, when we look at the tapestry, we see all the back and all the messed-up strings and then God sees the front and he sees the whole picture.
18:46.07
Rachel
and I was like, oh, my God.
18:47.40
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
18:47.95
Rachel
Like, that's – like, I it was really cool because it was it was not a Christian event.
18:48.49
Bec
Oh.
18:53.23
Rachel
It was a, like, council put on event. And she had made this thing, but then she, like, used her – artistic creativity to make a thing that said something about God and the world and how she saw things and you know lots of people from the community came to see it and that it wasn't a Christian event but then she was able to share that with people because of the art she had made and it was real cool yeah, it was really cool
19:15.82
Bec
I
19:20.97
Bec
love that.
19:20.99
Maddy
Yeah. I definitely think there's, I remember talking to a friend of mine a while ago who just loves art and she was into more painting and drawing and like visual arts. And she, I remember her being like, how, like you know, how do I serve God with art like you know it seems like something that's almost a bit you know like she's like sometimes it when I first got interested in doing art stuff it felt like a selfish hobby like it's for me so you know and she was saying that she really struggled to figure out how she could actually like she was wanting to actually worship
19:50.60
Rachel
Yeah.
19:52.22
Bec
Hmm.
20:00.93
Maddy
with her skills in art and use it to glorify God. And in the end, she found a few different avenues with church. You know, she would should create designs for church. There were pictures at church. And also, she ended up like ending up serving church in YWAM as an art director.
20:20.56
Maddy
Like it was really interesting. It was actually a whole art sphere within the Christian world of YWAM. And I just, yeah, it was just super interesting because it's just, I am just not in touch with that world that world.
20:27.47
Rachel
Hmm.
20:28.60
Bec
Yes. ha
20:30.93
Maddy
But she was using her art in a way that was actually I remember her trying to think about how she could point, use her art to not point people towards herself and her skills, but point people towards God and like the amazing world he has made.
20:45.78
Rachel
Hmm.
20:47.33
Maddy
And that we are only creative because we reflect that we're made in God's image and God is creative. He made this whole world, like, you know, like he made everything in it.
20:56.28
Bec
yes
20:57.37
Maddy
Yeah.
20:58.36
Rachel
And I think, yeah, that's, I think that's a, that's a very, I think, yeah, that's a really good point because in this whole conversation is that if you, you know, when we say, you know, you want to be creative and you're not necessarily that good at it, that's its own thing. But if you are creative and you happen to also be very talented, it is you know, often you will get many compliments reported to you which is lovely.
21:20.49
Rachel
And then you go, well, what, okay, as a Christian, and I want to use this to glorify God, what do I do with that? How do manage this thing?
21:26.64
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
21:28.03
Rachel
That's like a compliment to me, which is nice. And the skill I have and a talent I've been given and something I've worked on. and then, but then you also, I you know, you don't want to weirdo and like, Oh, report that compliment to God. Like he, you know, like you how do you do that in a, the you know, authentic way?
21:46.50
Bec
I just, when you guys are talking, what it really reminds me of, I interviewed Tenielle Neda and she's one of our writers, but she also is like a musician, has recorded all these albums.
21:51.80
Rachel
Mm.
21:58.47
Bec
And what was really interesting, she talked about like how she had become a Christian. So, she had a recording career before that. I think she was on Australian Idol, but what she said, it was exactly what Maddie was saying. It was that like, it was always a reflection on her, right?
22:11.24
Rachel
Mm.
22:12.68
Bec
And like kind of the weight of that, but actually the shift into making this music and being able to like bring glory to God and like just what a difference that had made to like her life and her enjoyment of it as well and her enjoyment of the music.
22:23.05
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
22:28.03
Bec
Like it could be joyful and not crushing.
22:31.23
Rachel
Mm.
22:31.52
Bec
Yeah.
22:32.23
Maddy
Yeah, and it takes away from, I guess, like, yeah, it's not me, it's God. It's also like, oh thank you, God gave me this gift and so I want to honour him with it.
22:41.74
Rachel
Mm.
22:45.91
Maddy
So, you don't need to brush off compliments, but you also need to recognise that that's not your identity, that that is a gift. It's a bit like, you know, when we recognise we have resources, with we're good stewards of those resources, so whether that be our money, our time, like we want to be good stewards of those things that God has given us.
23:05.14
Maddy
And then it's just like that. It's like our artistic talents. Like, you know, even like I love having people over and making a really nice meal. And like I'm kind of my passion is doing salads.
23:16.19
Maddy
Like I do salads and meats like just as separate.
23:17.95
Rachel
Yum.
23:18.51
Maddy
it but like just really interesting salads, like roast veggies and all.
23:22.83
Rachel
Mm.
23:23.03
Maddy
And I just love being creative with that. And I love it when someone enjoys it. but it's like again it's not necessarily like it's not like I’m like oh how good is it to share this together because I like it too you know it's like so but it's how you get to share it like but it's not like yeah, I know I’m an amazing cook but it's like how good is this food that God gives up like yeah, you know like where you can point it that way
23:26.75
Rachel
Mm.
23:28.42
Bec
Yeah.
23:33.53
Rachel
Mm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You're right. This is yum. Yeah.
23:40.40
Bec
I am great.
23:45.57
Rachel
Yeah, for sure.
23:47.63
Bec
Yeah, but I think it's like, I think it's that.
23:50.26
Rachel
Hmm.
23:52.19
Bec
I think God's like called you to rejoice and like it can be as simple as that where you're oh my goodness, I didn't know that this could taste like this. Did you know if you combine these things?
24:00.44
Rachel
Hmm.
24:00.87
Bec
Like this is also more like, I mean, it it's that. Like you can just have that pure and utter enjoyment of like, this is actually really great. Like it doesn't have to be.
24:12.64
Bec
a worth barometer, you know what I mean?
24:14.54
Maddy
I
24:15.36
Bec
Like, oh, this is like defining who I am. You can just enjoy the cooking or the watercolour or the poetry because it's beautiful because it's fun.
24:33.41
Rachel
Yeah, no, yeah.
24:34.98
Bec
Oh, I know.
24:36.42
Rachel
That made me think of the, you know, I don't know what verse it is, but you know, when Jesus said, I've come that you may have life and have it abundantly, because I think it's a real, you know,
24:43.98
Maddy
Hmm.
24:44.33
Bec
Yes.
24:47.63
Rachel
I mean, also from sort of the church era and the church tradition that I was raised in was like a lot of Christian stuff is very solemn and very like contemplative and very serious. And not that there aren't a lot of serious things, but I think there's often, you know, like joy is one of the fruits of the spirit.
25:05.30
Rachel
Like we're allowed to have a good time and, you know,
25:07.11
Bec
Yes!
25:09.96
Rachel
And I think potentially we have more we have more potential to have the most good time because we, like, are connected to the source of the good times, you know?
25:11.88
Bec
Jesus went to parties.
25:18.71
Rachel
like
25:20.12
Bec
Yes.
25:20.78
Rachel
Like the, yeah.
25:21.93
Maddy
I'm doing my raise the roof hands.
25:23.32
Rachel
Yeah.
25:23.51
Maddy
Will you? like Yeah.
25:24.44
Rachel
Go, go, go. yeah
25:29.45
Bec
Now, well, I'm not going.
25:32.72
Bec
I really want to plug this book that I was talking to you guys’ off air.
25:33.81
Rachel
good guy
25:37.23
Bec
So, like this, I've been reading this book. It has a terrible cover. it has a terrible name, but it is really excellent. It's called The Hidden Art of Homemaking by a lady called Edith Schaeffer. And her husband was like a famous preacher. I think he did a lot of books about like culture and philosophy. I don't even know.
25:53.13
Bec
I want to say that I understand what he did, but that's a lie.
25:54.74
Rachel
So
25:55.60
Bec
Anyway. She – this book is amazing. and It's not so much about homemaking but it's about finding the creativity in the everyday and, in like, exactly that, like, enjoying stuff. She's like, you know, you could draw – like, even if you don't have a talent for drawing, you can just draw your menu for the week.
26:15.95
Bec
And so, I've been drawing, like, these bistro-style menus and they're just funny to, like, me and the kids. You're like, oh, happy hour for the children, you know, or, like, just –
26:22.99
Rachel
Yeah.
26:24.46
Maddy
That's awesome.
26:26.67
Bec
You know, all like, oh, yes, we have kind of, you know, whatever, you know, artisan style bread because I've like made bread and I'm like, ha, ha, ha, ha.
26:37.41
Bec
I'm like, oh it's from our garden.
26:37.92
Maddy
I love it.
26:38.57
Bec
You know, like, oh, yes, I'm just all the ridiculously sounding restaurant language for my cheap ass menu.
26:42.74
Maddy
I love it
26:43.60
Rachel
yeah
26:43.99
Bec
But it's like, yeah.
26:45.14
Rachel
I had I saw a video of a lady who does like, I mean, obviously she's very good at drawing, but she literally does like little hidden paintings all around her house, like on like the back of a chair leg or like on a little, and she just has all these cute little like flowers and one's like a little mouse and stuff.
26:59.76
Rachel
And I was like, that's so fun. Cause I love, I like weird stuff. Like my house is, I like to buy weird stuff from the op shop. And like, I have a snail like sculpture that hangs off one of my things.
27:10.05
Rachel
And I have an ear sculpture. that like sits next to one of my like light switches is that an ear and I was like yeah, I thought it was I thought it was really funny
27:13.43
Maddy
Wow. Next to the snail sculpture.
27:16.52
Bec
You would love this book.
27:17.90
Maddy
Sorry.
27:18.83
Bec
You would love this book. It's like gardening and interior decoration and cooking.
27:22.48
Rachel
yeah
27:23.79
Bec
It's all this stuff where you're like, she's like, you don't want to have someone else.
27:24.24
Rachel
Yeah, in my toilet, in my toilet, I have thing from, you know, the Elven's, the Evenstar from, you know, from Lord of the Rings, Arwen's necklace that she gives, it's a niche reference, anyway.
27:37.84
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
27:37.77
Rachel
I have one of those, and then I have a feather from Forrest Gump, and I got, like, all this stuff because I like weird stuff.
27:38.89
Bec
Yeah, I get it.
27:43.98
Maddy
I love it.
27:43.91
Rachel
And people enjoy coming to my house because I got weird stuff for them to look at, you know?
27:48.43
Maddy
Conversation starters.
27:49.49
Bec
It's so fun.
27:49.77
Rachel
Conversation starters, exactly.
27:51.66
Maddy
Wonderful.
27:52.45
Rachel
It's so fun, yeah. And I think I would like that book, but you are correct. I don't like the title of it.
27:59.66
Bec
No. And, like, it's, yeah, it's not a homemaking book.
28:02.09
Rachel
mm.
28:02.58
Bec
Yeah. It's more like infusing creativity into the everyday, even if you're not particularly talented. And was like, I'm down for that.
28:09.76
Rachel
Well, I think that's kind of what we were saying before of like life can be fun. Like it can be, like it's okay to have a good time and do silly things. And like, yeah. I think we've kind of covered a lot of this, but the next question is what are some gospel truths you can remember to help you pursue creativity and awe in your daily life?
28:23.67
Bec
Hmm.
28:28.83
Rachel
Yeah.
28:30.48
Maddy
Look, I – yeah, this is actually like I was thinking a bit about this before.
28:31.51
Rachel
o
28:43.40
Rachel
sure
28:43.71
Maddy
My four-and-a-half-year-old son walks like three Ks with me every day.
28:45.68
Bec
Aw.
28:46.95
Maddy
He's amazing. And then we stop and we pick flowers. And then recently he's discovered some of the mushrooms that are coming out in the in the bush.
28:50.62
Rachel
yeah
28:54.48
Maddy
like and just, it's really interesting because between, we come home and he's like got armfuls of all these different flowers. and all these like, and we've like taken pictures, he's insisted on taking pictures of all the mushrooms that I've gone through.
29:07.44
Maddy
And that yesterday, like we even watched a video about different types of mushrooms, really kind of funny, but Discovery Channel thing.
29:07.60
Rachel
but
29:14.100
Maddy
But what it, it made me think of this because I'm like, wow look at like the different shapes of the flowers look at the different colours look at the different like look at the different ways that different mushrooms grow like I didn't know there were so many different types of mushrooms and some of them look like a normal mushroom that we have in our shops and some of them just look real weird like you know they've got some real coral like looks or and they're vibrant colours or they're not and I'm like and I said to Asher and I was like what
29:25.87
Bec
Yeah.
29:38.23
Rachel
Yes.
29:43.56
Maddy
man, God made all of these? Like, isn't that incredible?
29:48.24
Rachel
Yeah.
29:48.40
Maddy
He made all of these in all these different shapes and sizes and colours and just vibrant and creative.
29:48.64
Rachel
Mm.
29:55.40
Maddy
And like I'm thinking in the world of flowers and mushrooms right now, there is like there's worlds and worlds and worlds outside of that of things that he has expressed his creator.
30:05.91
Maddy
And so, all the Psalms are constantly saying like, you know, just praising God in his creation. Look at this like this that he's made from the mountains to the seas. Like it's just there's literally just praise Psalms that are like, wow, in awe of God and his creation.
30:22.16
Maddy
and that
30:22.93
Rachel
Mm.
30:23.35
Maddy
I think we can always think about that when we're thinking about creativity. because we remember it's a reflection of our maker, which is really cool.
30:32.17
Rachel
Mm. Mm.
30:34.36
Maddy
Yeah, there's been a lot of joy in my house around that.
30:37.51
Rachel
Cool.
30:38.71
Bec
I love that.
30:39.84
Rachel
Mushrooms are cool, man.
30:40.09
Bec
Honestly, as you were talking, it
30:44.80
Maddy
so cool.
30:45.59
Bec
Maddie, you reminded me of this quote and you’ve probably heard it – it’s from GK Chesterton. So, it says, because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged.
31:00.44
Bec
They always say, do it again. And the grown-up person does it again until he's nearly dead.
31:04.60
Rachel
Mm.
31:05.20
Bec
For grown up people are not strong enough to exalt in monotony, but perhaps God is strong enough to exalt in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, do it again to the sun, and every evening, do it again to the moon.
31:18.58
Bec
It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike. It may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them.
31:26.61
Rachel
and
31:27.54
Bec
It may be that he has the entire the eternal appetite of infancy, for we have sinned and grown old, and our father is younger than we.
31:36.24
Rachel
I like
31:36.43
Maddy
Wow.
31:37.27
Rachel
That's cool.
31:38.87
Maddy
That is super cool. I like it. Put it in the show notes. do it.
31:45.59
Maddy
yeah
31:45.98
Rachel
I think maybe that's a good one.
31:46.15
Bec
Ciao, ciao.
31:47.25
Maddy
yeah
31:48.82
Rachel
I know that probably a lot a lot of the people who listen to this have kids and, I mean, a lot don't, but I'm sure there's kids around you and there's kids in your church and things. Maybe that's a gospel truth we can take from this is that, like, you know, the Bible says that God loves children and, you know, our faith is to be like that of a child. Maybe we need to spend some more time observing children and how they are creative without boundaries and, like, expectations of what they're going to make and how it's going to look and what people are going to think about it. Yeah.
32:19.48
Maddy
And also, be in awe of that, like be in awe of things.
32:20.84
Bec
Yeah.
32:21.28
Rachel
Yeah, it'd be amazing.
32:22.60
Maddy
like, wow, that's actually really cool.
32:24.76
Bec
Like my kids came running in yesterday to me. They were so excited. They found a, like a dove nest in our mulberry tree. And they're like, mom, like, come now.
32:33.66
Maddy
Cool.
32:36.59
Bec
Like you have to see this.
32:36.55
Rachel
it's happening yeah that's cool man yeah
32:41.46
Bec
Yeah.
32:42.40
Rachel
yeah, it's very I'm not very amazed by like although the other day actually when I swam my laps at the pool you know at in the outside pool, there are massive, massive gum trees outside.
32:53.06
Bec
Yeah. Love almond apples. So good to do labs.
32:57.78
Rachel
And I was like trying to, actually it was after I talked to you and Amy, whatever, can't remember what we talked about on the podcast. And was like, oh, that's right. I need to like experience the world more.
33:05.14
Bec
Oh.
33:07.43
Rachel
And I literally just sat and like looked at the trees moving in the wind.
33:09.58
Bec
Yeah.
33:11.56
Rachel
It's like, that's like, cool. That's, it was like a moment of like, that's the thing.
33:15.51
Maddy
So cool.
33:16.13
Bec
Yeah.
33:17.38
Rachel
Like, you know, I can't, but I can feel it, that thing of like the wind and it takes the trees. And it was just like, this was a, it was a thing. Yeah.
33:28.62
Maddy
Hmm.
33:29.28
Rachel
yeah, and it was small and I think that's probably what I need to do in my day-to-day life is like it needs to be small things because if I try to do too much, it just won't.
33:39.100
Rachel
But, yeah, it was like a small profound thing in my day. Like, yeah, wow, that's really powerful and, like, impressive, the trees that have been made, the wind that moves them, you know?
33:45.64
Bec
Yeah.
33:48.08
Maddy
Yeah.
33:50.02
Rachel
Yeah.
33:51.27
Maddy
Yeah, so cool.
33:52.43
Bec
Yeah.
33:53.87
Maddy
the
33:53.80
Rachel
Yeah.
33:54.88
Maddy
I know that like having, yeah, and having, I know in the first year of being around kids but like having kids,
33:54.92
Bec
I love it. It's those tiny things.
34:03.25
Maddy
you know, I was pointing out things and I remember just being like bird, bird, galah, bird. And like, and I was like, oh these birds are really different.
34:09.99
Bec
Yeah.
34:12.37
Maddy
was like, and so I had to just start learning names of birds, like a bit like now the flowers. And it's been really amazing. Yeah. Just again, like just reflecting on God's creation and just sitting there and actually watching it, like putting your phone away and like actually taking it.
34:24.41
Rachel
Mm-hmm.
34:28.36
Maddy
Cause then we're reminded that there's creativity all around us and yeah, that it's okay to have a joy.
34:30.54
Bec
Hmm.
34:33.03
Maddy
in the creative things that we do, that it doesn't have to be productive. Because I think the other thing about creativity is when we were when we remember that it's a that, you know, our ability to take joy in the beauty of things, whether our art, our music, our, you know, those other joys, like our cooking, like the joys that we have, there they're not a work.
34:55.11
Maddy
Like, and it's not necessarily a productive thing.
34:55.69
Rachel
Hmm.
34:58.12
Bec
Hmm.
34:59.52
Maddy
It's a... It's something where we get to stand back and be in awe of the creation, like, and, you know, recognizing where our creativity comes from.
35:08.06
Bec
Yeah.
35:10.10
Maddy
And just I think that's like, that's one of the things that the gospel can definitely speak into because it reminds us of, like, you know, that we are creatures who reflect our creator and that, you know, even God was delighted in us to be able to even send his son to come as a man, you know, to actually enjoy the creation too and then, you know redeem us, redeem the whole creation, not just people, but, you know, the whole creation is going to be renewed.
35:31.98
Rachel
Hmm. Hmm.
35:39.86
Maddy
Yeah. Yeah.
35:42.62
Bec
Just one thing I was going to mention, and I might have touched on it a bit, Rach, when we talked in the frontline mental health episode.
35:48.84
Rachel
Hmm.
35:50.01
Bec
Like my last role before I went on, before I had my last son, was in private practice. And one of the things I used I would get to see is people would get well.
36:02.59
Bec
And you would know that it was coming by those really small things where they're like, I'm... I cooked a meal, but like something more elaborate than toast, or I went outside and I looked at the trees or, you know, I like to do watercolours and I have been painting and you would see it and you think like joy is coming back.
36:15.91
Rachel
Hmm.
36:23.97
Bec
You think if you're really depressed, like you can't enjoy anything like without God, there is no enjoyment.
36:27.55
Maddy
Hmm. Hmm.
36:28.50
Rachel
Hmm.
36:29.26
Bec
You, a crushed spirit, like who can bear, yeah, I don't know why that is. And I have tried like asking lecturers and all kinds of people being like, why do you think this is? But like I just think, isn't that fascinating? If God's made us,
36:46.18
Bec
I don't know.
36:50.27
Rachel
And I think I often, I used, I probably used to a lot more, but when I'm at work, is that like so sometimes I stop and you think about like the sheer amount of creativity that went into the mechanism of the human body.
37:08.57
Rachel
and all those things, it's so intricate and so like perfectly balanced.
37:09.75
Bec
Hmm.
37:09.86
Maddy
It's amazing.
37:10.05
Bec
Hmm.
37:16.10
Rachel
And I just don't think about it enough because I just get, you know, you think about tasks and stuff, but you just think the amount of like things that work together to make this this amount of people be functioning,
37:30.06
Rachel
And then also they don't just function. They also can then do things like play the piano and, and paint and do all these other, it's not just a machine that works. It's a machine that also can also create,
37:43.93
Rachel
Yeah, like even that like, you know, we take one blood test and it tells you all every all these things that are in someone's blood. And if one thing's off, it like it has a massive effect on the rest of it but you're like, it's all balanced.
37:54.04
Maddy
The imbalance, yeah.
37:57.48
Rachel
Like it's magical. And we don't appreciate it much.
37:59.83
Bec
Yeah.
38:01.10
Maddy
It's amazing.
38:01.50
Rachel
because it all works.
38:01.78
Bec
you
38:02.58
Rachel
You don't appreciate it until it doesn't work.
38:05.11
Maddy
And how, yeah, so cool.
38:06.42
Bec
Yes.
38:06.71
Rachel
It is cool, man. Yeah. yeah
38:11.22
Maddy
And how cool is it that like, you know, when you do learn a new skill, your brain like rewires, like, you know, like it lays down new synapses and stuff.
38:16.47
Rachel
man
38:18.26
Maddy
Like actually God's created us that way so that you can actually make new, anyway, just so cool.
38:20.33
Bec
Mm-hmm.
38:23.16
Rachel
Yeah. Yeah.
38:26.26
Bec
I don't know if I told you guys this and then tell me if I have Rachel, I feel like you appreciate this.
38:29.11
Rachel
Right.
38:31.29
Bec
Tell me if I have told you this.
38:31.36
Rachel
Okay.
38:32.49
Bec
I came across this lady, saw her on Instagram, but I've listened to her podcast. Oh no, I sent it to you guys in the group chat and she's called like the faith field therapist.
38:40.30
Rachel
Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm.
38:43.48
Bec
Anyway, whatever.
38:44.60
Rachel
Put it the show notes.
38:44.89
Bec
what I like about her is she was talking about, I'll put it in the show notes. You can't be worried and worship at the same time. So, like worship and thinking about like God's love releases oxytocin and I might get this wrong.
38:52.60
Rachel
Hmm. Yeah.
38:56.28
Rachel
Hmm.
38:57.86
Bec
I think it's the, anyway, it's the rest and digest system that it like activates, but you can't have like the cortisol system. They're like, we're in danger system be activated at the same time.
39:06.63
Rachel
Hmm.
39:08.35
Bec
And she said, actually, meditating on God's love physically changes your brain. So, your amygdala, like the smoke alarm, like this is dangerous, becomes less reactive.
39:19.45
Bec
And your prefrontal cortex, which is like you making good and wise decisions, like thickens. So, the more that you kind of like, wow, God really loves me and look at what he made and look how amazing this is.
39:33.50
Bec
Like it actually changes you and your brain.
39:35.70
Rachel
yeah, wow that's cool yeah
39:38.17
Bec
Yeah.
39:38.77
Maddy
Let's
39:39.79
Bec
It's so cool.
39:40.98
Rachel
yes
39:41.78
Bec
You're just like the body and you're like, yeah.
39:41.79
Maddy
see.
39:44.02
Rachel
Yeah, it's almost like he's way smarter than us and we kind of don't see the whole picture.
39:45.11
Bec
Yeah.
39:48.33
Bec
Yeah.
39:48.79
Rachel
It's weird.
39:53.05
Maddy
That, yeah, your thoughts are above my thoughts.
39:53.16
Rachel
Yes.
39:56.81
Maddy
Your ways are greater than my ways.
39:56.98
Rachel
Yes. Yeah, I feel that.
39:59.58
Bec
Yeah.
40:00.44
Rachel
I feel that in my bones.
40:01.39
Maddy
But absolutely.
40:02.36
Rachel
Yeah.
40:03.42
Bec
yeah
40:03.58
Rachel
Yes.
40:05.00
Maddy
It's also just that, like, you know, he gives, he can, he answers prayers he gives us even more than we could ask or imagine.
40:11.91
Maddy
It's like actually just that amazing, you know, we can't even fathom, like, you know, the depths and,
40:12.24
Rachel
Mm-hmm.
40:20.74
Maddy
Even our creative side can't even really grasp what God is like and what God has in store for us. Yeah, it's just pretty amazing.
40:26.93
Rachel
It's all right.
40:31.18
Bec
And the last thing that I just, I have been thinking about recently, But it's like, we're so obsessed with what we're doing and productive and optimising every minute and all of that. And we're like, we don't really have time for hobbies.
40:52.84
Bec
But... It worries me about like where we go as a society if that's ultimately what we think of because you think at either side,
41:02.72
Bec
young people, old people, people with disabilities, like I think our society just says that doesn't matter because it's not productive.
41:10.13
Rachel
yeah
41:11.79
Bec
You know, like you're a burden. We shouldn't have to deal with this.
41:13.44
Maddy
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
41:16.83
Bec
But I just feel like in some way it's all connected in with like, you know creativity is so beautiful almost to be, you know, you would say it's pointless and why is it there?
41:30.75
Bec
But you're like, it makes such a difference in our lives and how beauty points us to God. Yeah.
41:38.08
Rachel
yeah
41:39.29
Maddy
Yeah. How cool is it that we're not just like kind of, I don't know, I'm going to say ants, but I'm sure there is creativity in ants. But, you know, like we're just not fun. We're not just functioning machines, but we are like we are created as things that can take joy in the beauty.
41:50.13
Rachel
Mm. Mm.
41:55.27
Maddy
Like, you know, we could have been created as like functional machines that just you know are there to look after the world and do these jobs. But actually, like, you know, we're creatures.
42:08.24
Maddy
been designed and created to enjoy and be gifted and appreciate the beauty in the world around us too. Yeah.
42:16.28
Rachel
And I speak, I think that speaks, that in itself speaks to the abundance of God of like, even he big his nature, he would create things that would also create, like it's, it's the, like in his abundance, he would not make something that is boring and just a rope.
42:34.75
Rachel
He wouldn't like, it you know, we don't often, I don't know if we think of ourselves in that, in those contexts, but you go, well, we are the created thing.
42:35.42
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
42:50.28
Maddy
Yeah.
42:53.59
Rachel
Yeah.
42:53.78
Maddy
So cool.
42:54.97
Rachel
all right, well, we're almost done, but we've got one last thing.
42:56.78
Bec
Yeah. Oh.
42:57.23
Maddy
a beautiful picture.
42:58.58
Rachel
Yeah, it is a beautiful picture. And I think we don't, we often, this is a good thing about this podcast is it's made me think about stuff that I don't think about that much. But in, in light of that, our last question, which is, we've answered a lot of it, but if you have any other things is on a practical level, how do you, or how would you want to in the future pursue creativity and all in your life more?
43:23.07
Maddy
I think for myself, like, you know, so sometimes it's really hard to find the time to do things like make a really nice meal and experiment with things or, you know, or do the other hobby of like watercolours.
43:35.09
Maddy
Haven't done it in so long.
43:36.35
Rachel
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
43:37.86
Maddy
But on like a practical, pursuing creativity I think is more a appreciating the creativity, like a bit what I've kind of spoken about before, you know, even my walks can sometimes just be like, we're walking the dog and we then we got to go out.
43:50.80
Maddy
So, hurry up. But like actually stopping and taking awe and what's around us and actually just being reminded that that's okay because it's a form in which we, you know, we appreciate the world that God has given us and yeah, the amazing creativity with which he's made it.
43:53.32
Bec
Bye.
44:06.34
Maddy
Yeah, that's my one.
44:09.00
Rachel
I think I just had a thought that in what I said before of like maybe in like complimenting or noticing creativity in other people, then like attributing that to God to them, particularly in the church of like, you know, I can, I, in that thing that you've made, whatever it may be, I was like, that's awesome.
44:19.66
Maddy
No. Mm-hmm.
44:32.08
Rachel
And I can see like it come from, like a place of glorifying God. Do you know what I mean Like complimenting that rather than, yeah, I think I would love for someone to see, tis to see like Christ in me in in through creativity and then to maybe talk about it in that way rather than great job doing that thing.
44:56.42
Rachel
you know what I mean?
44:56.95
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
44:57.89
Rachel
And like in it just in the vein of like noticing creativity rather than just being creative.
44:58.02
Maddy
Mm-hmm. Yep.
45:06.22
Bec
I think of that. I think what you're both getting at is Its gratitude.
45:11.31
Rachel
Yeah.
45:12.41
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
45:12.65
Bec
It's ultimately, you know, even if you don't have time to do the thing, you can look at what God has made and be like, wow, like have you seen that spider orchid? Like that's only in a very specific area and it's only this time of year.
45:27.41
Bec
And like, look, here's a beautiful spider orchid. And even if you can't create, like you can take a moment like outside the pool and be like, wow, look at those trees and look at them swaying.
45:38.80
Rachel
yeah
45:39.25
Bec
Wow, thanks God, like that's just beautiful.
45:41.26
Rachel
oh
45:43.82
Maddy
absolutely. Yeah, and appreciating it with others. Yeah, having a buddy.
45:48.66
Rachel
Yeah. Yeah. And pointing it out to others as well, I think, because I it can be so helpful to just, like, if you can reframe your thoughts and then help others to do the same, because sometimes you're like, oh, yeah, like, that's help like it's helpful.
45:50.94
Bec
Yeah.
45:53.55
Maddy
Yeah. Yeah.
45:54.76
Bec
Hmm.
46:03.94
Maddy
It rubs off, doesn't it?
46:04.85
Rachel
It does.
46:04.99
Maddy
Yeah.
46:05.45
Rachel
Yeah.
46:06.16
Maddy
Yeah.
46:06.96
Rachel
And, it yeah, it does. Alright, well maybe that's our task. but wait
46:11.15
Bec
I think it completes the joy.
46:12.05
Rachel
Yeah.
46:13.20
Maddy
Yeah.
46:13.94
Bec
I think it does. so, like a joy shared is like, it's like, it's kind of completed, you know.
46:18.32
Maddy
yeah
46:20.02
Bec
So, I made Zach plant just like proteas and it took ages for them to come out. But then like when I could see a protea growing, I was like texting pictures of it to like Zach and like my friend Stacy.
46:28.94
Bec
And I was like, look, I have proteas in the garden.
46:29.83
Rachel
It's happening! Yeah.
46:34.30
Bec
And something about it, I don't know, just completed I was like, I'm excited and I'm grateful, but I'm also like, did you see this?
46:39.25
Rachel
Yeah. Yeah, man.
46:41.07
Maddy
Yeah, yeah.
46:41.58
Bec
Yeah, yeah.
46:41.74
Maddy
Awesome.
46:42.08
Rachel
That's cool.
46:44.08
Maddy
So many good stuff.
46:44.04
Rachel
All right.
46:44.39
Bec
That's it.
46:46.48
Rachel
oh, so we've decided that creativity is good. God is good. And we shall move forward with that. Agreed?
46:54.38
Maddy
Yeah.
46:55.18
Rachel
Lovely.
46:55.66
Maddy
Grand old summary.
46:56.87
Rachel
Okay. All right. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.
47:00.37
Bec
Great hustle.
47:01.01
Rachel
Bye.