So You Want to Go into Ministry and Be Paid in Dollars with Alexia Horton (Season 2, Episode 12)
So You Want to Go into Ministry and Be Paid in Dollars with Alexia Horton
So today’s topic came out of our Ask Me Anything: Kids Ministry episode with Josie Rivett where one of the questions was around pathways into paid kids ministry coordinator roles. Later, I was debriefing with Amy Stopher, who said, “Pathways into paid ministry is a whole podcast topic on its own, you should interview Alexia Horton”. Turns out, not only is it a whole podcast topic, it’s Alexia’s whole job. She’s the Women’s Ministry Advisor at Trinity Theological College.
Today, we explore:
The barriers Alexia sees specifically for women seeking theological training, including “you can’t be what you can’t see,” a lack of mentors, and a lack of confidence for women in these roles.
Why the common advice, “study when your kids are grown up,” sounds right but often doesn’t play nicely when women get to this stage, discussing how seasons of life can clash with ministry training. Alexia and Maddy suggest some paths through the mountains.
What women who love ministry and have thought about going into paid ministry can do to support this goal in different seasons of life and exploring some wrong reasons for pursuing ministry.
Options for women in rural and remote WA on getting equipped in ministry.
You can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.
If you prefer to read, the transcript of the episode is at the bottom of this page👍🏻
Mentioned in this episode:
Ministry Training Strategy (MTS) Apprenticeship
Perth Gospel Partnership (PGP)
Trinity Equip - women’s training
Great Southern Training Hub one year internships with Albany Baptist Church and Living Waters Anglican Church.
Moore Theological College one year online Advanced Diploma in Bible, Mission and Ministry
Alexia Bio
Alexia is married to Ashley and they have two primary school age children. They were part of the team that planted Southern Christian Church, an FIEC church in the City of Cockburn. Ashley is the Pastor there and Alexia has served alongside him in a variety of ministry roles as the church has grown.
Alexia formerly worked as a solicitor in Perth city before completing ministry training with the Australian Fellowship of Evangelical Students. She has completed studies at Trinity Theological College and is currently undertaking further study in the field of Christian mentoring. Alexia provides support to the female students at Trinity and is keen to see women working and thriving in ministry in Perth and beyond. You can contact Alexia for her delightful women’s ministry advice through Trinity Theological College.
Transcript
00:00.57
Rebecca
Hey guys, it's Bec. Welcome to season two of the After Dinner Mint podcast. I'm here today with Maddie and Alexia Horton. If you guys could please introduce yourselves and then tell us about your experience in like paid and volunteer ministry. So no pressure, but Alexia, you get to go first.
00:16.47
Alexia
Yeah, great. Thanks for having me. I'm Alexia and I'm married to Ash. He's a pastor here down in Cockburn Central at Southern Christian Church. And I have two kids, one high school, Nadia, and one finishing primary school, Kevin.
00:31.02
Alexia
At the moment, my job is part-time and I work at Trinity Theological College.
00:31.04
Rebecca
Thank you.
00:36.74
Alexia
So I'm the women's ministry advisor there. i suppose the main thing I do is support the female students that are studying their degrees. So supporting them at the moment in their studies, what's going on in life. But I guess my passion is for seeing them being really prepared for ministry life after college.
00:58.31
Alexia
say That's what I love about my job. There's lots of other things I do at Trinity alongside that role, but that is the focus of what I do. And, yes, great.
01:07.99
Rebecca
that's beautiful. And before I jump into Maddie, tell me, just give me like a little bit of a bird's eye overview of some of the kind of volunteer and paid roles you've had before ending up in like the theological college.
01:20.36
Alexia
Yeah, so i suppose my journey into ministry is a little bit roundabout because m suppose it started off okay. Before you have children, things are a bit more straightforward.
01:33.84
Alexia
So I worked in – yeah, that's right.
01:35.47
Maddy
What? News to me.
01:38.94
Alexia
I worked in – Full-time for a while, but as a lawyer, so that's what I originally trained as. But I'd always thought about doing ministry full-time. So I suppose the next step was to do MTS, which is a Ministry Training Strategy Apprenticeship for two years at the University of Western Australia. And so that was full time. That was awesome.
02:01.51
Alexia
And then after that finished, I thought if I'm going to be in ministry, I really need more training. So i thought about going to theological college. I started study. I did one unit and then I had my first baby.
02:14.01
Rebecca
Oh, he's away.
02:14.49
Alexia
And so from there, study was a slow crawl as I had kids doing study part-time.
02:18.28
Rebecca
away
02:23.61
Alexia
After that, I would have loved to have got a ministry job, but between kids and my husband being a pastor of a church, that wasn't going to happen. So I suppose my ministry experience then was volunteer, though at whatever capacity I had at the time.
02:36.99
Alexia
And it was in those years when my kids started going to school, I thought about what do I do with my life? And this lovely job at Trinity was advertised and I thought, I'm not sure I'm up to that but going to apply anyway.
02:51.22
Alexia
And it's been great. So that's where I am.
02:54.10
Rebecca
Amazing. Amazing. Now, Maddie, like quick intro, because I know that we know you, but you know, for people who don't know you and then maybe tell us a little bit about like your volunteer and paid ministry roles.
03:07.31
Maddy
Yeah, well, I'm Maddie. I have been a beneficiary of Alexia's work at Trinity recently.
03:13.03
Alexia
Oh,
03:13.15
Maddy
So I've been at Trinity Theological College, finishing off my master's degree.
03:13.60
Rebecca
Hey!
03:16.51
Maddy
Almost done. Woo.
03:18.12
Alexia
it's so exciting.
03:18.45
Rebecca
a
03:19.69
Maddy
So I'm like handing in this week and I'm like, bye-bye. You know, even though I love, I love Trinity. I'm actually going to be sad not to be there. But my experience in volunteer and paid ministry was You know, ever since I became a Christian as a young adult, getting involved in things like youth group, leading Bible studies, you know being trained and equipped myself in more of an informal way as a volunteer. And then I just, after hearing the gospel, I just had a passion for wanting other people trained and equipped in God's word because I felt like I needed training and equipping.
03:50.88
Maddy
So it was just something that I remember,
03:50.99
Rebecca
Thank you.
03:54.18
Maddy
you know deciding whether I would go to uni or do something in ministry, ministry training. And that was a real toss-up for me. But it was always but it just I decided to go for to uni first and get a little bit of kind of secular experience just in a paid job in it and something outside of the ministry world as a beneficiary as well to benefit my ministry in future in the sense that I know what it's like for other people to be ministering, I'm ministering to. in the secular workplace doing the daily grind.
04:24.32
Maddy
And so it was always a bit of an interim thing to be working in that role. And so I always knew I wanted to go to into ministry, which kind of got fast-tracked a bit when I got tapped on the shoulder for a one-day-a-week traineeship at Prov Midland, where I'm at now. So I started doing that and it was kind of being trained up in an actual vocational capacity as well. So that was great.
04:46.61
Maddy
And then decided to go to Trinity because everyone I knew seemed to go to Trinity. And I was like, oh, that's what people do. and yeah And then I've been working on and off.
04:53.32
Alexia
going
04:56.58
Maddy
And then I've had, you know, I had quite a bit of time off paid ministry while I'd finished off my degree. And so a lot of that was volunteer that I did as well. So I've been in and out of either.
05:06.79
Maddy
Some of my roles were quite similar, but, you know, volunteer and paid ministry as well over the last year. Yeah, don't know, 10 years really. Yeah.
05:16.39
Rebecca
Yeah, wow. Yeah, mate.
05:18.30
Maddy
That's me.
05:19.88
Rebecca
I love it I love that, like, speech was basically your, like, version of Paul, like, making tents.
05:21.91
Alexia
Thank you.
05:24.12
Rebecca
You're like, yeah, I've got to get trained in, like, making tents first before I can. Yeah,
05:28.05
Maddy
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I was like tenting with people.
05:30.61
Rebecca
yeah, wicked.
05:35.29
Rebecca
Well, on that wonderful segue, uh...
05:35.87
Maddy
But actually, know, that was really valuable. it was really valuable because I learned a lot of skills from speech pathology I needed in ministry. And it wasn't even to do with speech pathology. It was just like organization skills, time management, people skills, life skills that were just really, really helpful. So, you know, God knew what he was doing and leading me that pathway first.
05:58.38
Maddy
Yeah.
05:58.70
Rebecca
he was like sit up make sure you don't choke that's also important okay so keeping us on track i am Bec i am the founder of Stories I'd Tell You At Dinner trained as a clinical psych married to Zac i have three boys no one has paid me any money for ministry but I've done things like run women's Bible studies.
06:02.04
Maddy
That is important.
06:03.23
Alexia
Hmm.
06:18.53
Rebecca
I coordinated a play group for a while, a drop in one for about five years.
06:20.42
Alexia
Thank
06:21.45
Rebecca
That's pretty fun. so I'm mainly here to just be like, tell me the things I'm super intrigued because so today's topic came out of our, like, ask me anything episode with Josie Rivett.
06:22.89
Alexia
you.
06:31.98
Rebecca
So I'll link that in the show notes, but basically one of the questions was about pathways into paid kids ministry roles. So I was talking to Amy Stopher and she said like pathways into paid ministry is a whole topic on its own.
06:44.49
Rebecca
like you should interview Alexia. So it turns out it's not actually a whole podcast topic, but it's also Alexia's whole job. So basically in this chat, we're hoping to cover like the pathways into paid ministry for women and the barriers that women face, as well as some of those like counterintuitive advice for structuring your whole life, if that is your goal.
07:00.59
Maddy
I'm going to go.
07:04.44
Rebecca
So Alexia, can you just maybe give us a bit of an idea? Like what are some barriers you see for women who are seeking theological training?
07:14.19
Alexia
Yeah, and I think there are some, so it's a good question. The things I'm going to talk about now are really things that I've experienced myself, but also what the students at college have brought to me as we've talked about it. So this is kind of a bit of a collection of things over the last few years that I've been yeah thinking through.
07:33.22
Alexia
And, yeah, what are some barriers to people coming both to Trinity but also going into ministry or staying in ministry? So i think one of the things that keeps coming up over and over again is that pathways idea you were talking about.
07:40.16
Rebecca
Hmm.
07:45.51
Alexia
So I think the pathway into a ministry job is actually really unclear. If you're... just in your church doing volunteer ministry and thinking, I'd love to get a job one day, but how do I get a ministry job? What is the pathway to get there? Like that is not written down anywhere. and No one knows what that looks like. So unless you talk to people or yeah, see someone who's done it, then I think that's a real barrier to know where to start. Yeah.
08:15.01
Alexia
Yeah, so that's one. Yeah.
08:17.30
Rebecca
Definitely. What else?
08:19.42
Alexia
So connected to that, I guess, is what I mentioned, people are not being able to see someone who's done it before them. So having a role model of someone who is in ministry and has the job that you could see yourself doing. So suppose in Perth we're a little bit smaller in our Christian community and seeing women employed in churches is not as common as it could be. And so, yeah, to aim for something where you can't see what it looks like, that's really hard.
08:48.52
Alexia
So having role models in ministry, that's I think that's a barrier, a lack of role models to see what you could be doing.
08:56.01
Rebecca
Yeah.
08:56.36
Alexia
Do
08:58.29
Rebecca
Massively so.
09:01.04
Alexia
you want more?
09:03.85
Rebecca
I do. I think like there's that. I think there's definitely like, does this job even exist? And like, if you found that unicorn who was doing it, you know, that's the type of person that you would, or maybe this is me being an extrovert being like, hello, you don't know me, but I have many questions.
09:30.25
Rebecca
like in terms of what women might face compared to say like a man who's like, I'm going to go into full-time ministry. It also sounds like there are women would grapple with different things.
09:40.82
Alexia
Yeah, totally. So it might look a bit different for a guy just because you see a lot more men leading churches or in maybe what you would think of as a standard ministry role. But even the women that you do know in ministry, the ones I could think of, they're all doing different things and they all have a different job description.
09:50.32
Rebecca
Yeah.
09:56.64
Alexia
So, yeah, I think it is really hard to see what someone does and how to get there. Yeah.
10:03.48
Maddy
That's really interesting you said that because I actually wondered if people found, were wondering what, like, what can we do in ministry that's not pigeonholed into perhaps like this one, they only ever see women work in one kind of role, whether that's, say, like kids ministry or, you know,
10:24.18
Maddy
admin you know uh and so you know this is and they these are such valuable and awesome roles to have but not every women woman wants to be working or has kind of gifting to be working in those areas so you know what would you say to that person who is also going like is this the only role that women have in ministry
10:25.59
Alexia
Yeah, that's right.
10:46.00
Alexia
Yeah, I'd say to them, I think that there is a whole wide variety of roles that are not just kids ministry or doing admin or the women's worker. So looking around Perth now, I'm really encouraged to see women working in all sorts of roles in ministry, whether that's, you know, designing Sunday services or being part of like leading the connect or welcoming group or just being like an assistant pastor at large, like doing the things that are needed.
10:57.72
Rebecca
Thank you.
11:14.94
Alexia
So I think We might not see them and they might not be at our church, but there is yeah a whole heap of need out there for women to be working in ministry.
11:26.88
Maddy
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, thanks for that, Alexia.
11:28.84
Rebecca
Beautiful.
11:29.39
Alexia
Yeah.
11:30.02
Rebecca
And like, what do you think women grapple with?
11:30.13
Alexia
Yeah.
11:30.66
Maddy
Did you have anything to add, Bec?
11:32.29
Rebecca
i do. What do you think women grapple with?
11:34.69
Maddy
Yeah.
11:39.71
Rebecca
that Perhaps their male counterparts wouldn't.
11:44.03
Alexia
I'm just having a think.
11:48.94
Alexia
I'm not saying that guys don't feel this, but I think probably women feel a lack of confidence more in perhaps their own ability or aspiration in what they would like to do.
12:00.84
Alexia
And so I suppose that links into another barrier I see for women. going into ministry is that no one has tapped them on the shoulder. I love that you use that language, Maddie, when you said someone approached you and did that. If someone doesn't do that for you, then it's actually really hard and to think about going into ministry under own steam.
12:20.16
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
12:21.14
Alexia
And that doesn't mean that you're not capable or that you could be doing it. It's just that no one has encouraged you yet to do it or think about it. and So...
12:32.24
Alexia
I think guys do feel a lack of confidence as well, but not to the same extent in general that women do. Yep.
12:41.64
Maddy
Yeah, and it's always worth, I guess, you know, if you are someone who is considering that, having the conversation with your pastor and being like, you know, yeah, what does this look like? Like what would it look like for me to get more training even as a volunteer and then as a pathway to go potentially into some sort of vocational role in future?
12:56.79
Alexia
Totally.
13:02.32
Maddy
It doesn't have to be an immediate thing. I think we can often feel like, okay, for someone who wants to go into vocational ministry, How's it going to happen? it going happen in the short term? How am I going to get a job like in the next couple of years? But sometimes it's actually, do want to consider it a bit as a slow grind because also to be in vocational ministry is a, you actually have, you've got a character.
13:26.64
Maddy
You need to examine your character. You need to be examining your faith. And it's very personal. It's not like taking up a role at a local hospitality joint or in a hospital somewhere where you actually leave it at home.
13:40.24
Alexia
yeah
13:42.85
Maddy
You know, you go home and you leave it at work and, you know, you you're there, you've got your work hat on, you come home. A ministry vocation does actually require your whole life to be under, in in submission to God.
13:55.53
Maddy
Okay.
13:57.51
Rebecca
Yeah. And like leading on from that, i know when we talked, Alexia, you were saying, you know, Trinity doesn't often recommend that, you know, women come straight out of school and train. But then often what you tend to see is like, okay, well if you've gone off and say like Maddie did, you know, you've had secular training in some other degree, which is a really good thing to do, you know, making tents. And then often then women are like married, having babies, like it sounds like Or they are not married and not having babies. Like, I think it sounds like on both levels, there's a level of complexity about this is my life stage. And then how does that also interact with theological training?
14:38.98
Alexia
Yeah, definitely. I think ga you're right. Coming to do theological study after school, I think does really preempt the whole process. You do want to get some life experience. You want to see what you're like as a Christian, as an adult. and see what life is like and all its hardships and its, yeah, living as a grown-up, as a Christian. So you want to do that first. You want to see,
15:01.74
Alexia
do some volunteer ministry first. See if that is, yeah, either you're gifting or something that you're actually motivated for.
15:12.35
Alexia
You don't want to be doing things for the wrong reasons. I think theological study is kind of a it's a middle step in a whole training experience. So if I was to think of the default pathway of how someone gets into, say, full-time vocational ministry, after you've established, like, yes, have I got the character? Do I at least think I have the capability to do this? Is someone tapping me on the shoulder and thinking that I can do this? Then doing some full-time ministry of some kind, whether that's volunteer paid, that is – That has got to be the first step, I think, before investing in, say, three years of theological study. so
15:48.47
Alexia
and like you say, by the time you've done all that and you get to Trinity Theological College, say, women are yeah, having babies, thinking they would love to get married or they are married. And so it's a life stage where there's lots of changes and lots of other decisions to make and to juggle at the same time.
16:07.29
Alexia
And I think that's just the way it is for us at the moment.
16:11.99
Maddy
I reckon that segues into our second question really well. So, Alexia, why does the common advice to study when your kids are grown up, why does it sound right but often doesn't play out well when women actually get to this stage?
16:26.61
Alexia
Yeah, so I'm not speaking from experience so much here as just what I've heard multiple times from other people. m But I can definitely relate to the feeling of when your kids are really little, life is so overwhelming, and why on earth would I go do study then? Yeah, like I had kids who didn't sleep. I had other stresses in my life, like why would you go do your study? Yeah.
16:51.57
Alexia
But I have heard from people who have not studied it at a stage or not taken any kind of training while their kids are small and then gone back when their kids are teenagers. Actually, it's so much harder to do it then.
17:04.53
Rebecca
Hmm.
17:04.85
Alexia
You think that the kids are at school. You think they're occupied and you're gonna have all of this time. But actually, the emotional toll and the taxi driving of kids in their teenage years, I think is actually more complex than when they're small and in the baby toddler.
17:21.23
Alexia
or like kindy kind of stage. So, what I've heard. And so I'm kind of thankful that I did pursue some study when they were small. I think it's got the added bonus of when you get to that stage of life and you feel like your time is freed up, to not start your training then, but to actually be then equipped to be doing ministry.
17:45.68
Alexia
So if you had, say, a gap where your kids have been little and you haven't been doing very much for a while, to go back into doing ministry is actually really hard and lots of people feel like they've lost their confidence.
18:00.64
Alexia
or they've really got to get something back. The more training you've had before you have that gap and you have to go back, I think there i think the more confidence you'll have in giving it a go again go, yeah, done this before.
18:12.20
Maddy
Hmm.
18:13.23
Alexia
I don't really feel like I can do it now, but I know I can do it, so I can do it again. Yeah. yeah
18:19.12
Rebecca
I, like just even in a secular example, so I did my training in clinical psychology. And so I was like having babies and working and then being like, I'll do a day a week of a placement and a day a week of like,
18:31.20
Rebecca
study and just kind of being like, and then I will have another baby and I will like weirdly come back or whatever, like just kind of very slowly got my master's degree. And just every time I would, I have 3 babies, but anyway, every both times I had my older two and I would go back to work and I might've say had a year off and I was convinced that I know nothing.
18:39.100
Alexia
Yeah.
18:50.24
Rebecca
i have forgotten everything I've ever learned.
18:51.97
Alexia
Yeah.
18:53.60
Rebecca
So I can see if it's like a longer period of time,
18:53.80
Alexia
if
18:58.21
Rebecca
it would be a bigger blow to your confidence returning back.
19:03.12
Alexia
and Yeah.
19:04.14
Rebecca
Yeah.
19:04.75
Maddy
Yeah. I was going to say, think as well, the early years can be a challenging, so it,
19:12.86
Maddy
It's definitely sounds like a bit of a don't be scared off, you know, from studying in this early stage. It is hard, but it's, you know, don't be scared off by it because it's still beneficial. And I can definitely see the benefit in that the stage of life, like it's hard enough to hear a sermon.
19:27.15
Maddy
on a Sunday when you have little kids because often you are having in and out with a little one, chasing a toddler in the children's ministry if your kid doesn't want you to leave them or you're kind of, yeah, very much chopping and changing.
19:27.93
Rebecca
Mm-hmm. okay
19:40.98
Maddy
It's actually, you know, I think sometimes being more thoroughly equipped through that season can help ground you a bit more because it's really easy to start kind of going afloat in that season.
19:47.56
Alexia
Mm.
19:51.75
Maddy
of like, you know, I've spoken to some women who said, who had kids fairly close together and they said, i just, I realised I just wasn't even in on one whole Sunday service for six years.
19:51.94
Alexia
Mm.
20:02.84
Maddy
Didn't sit in on a service, didn't listen to it to a, you know, and a full sermon. And so, you know, there's definitely... You don't need to be afraid of the being equipped in ministry through theological training in that sea season because also it also equips you for, you know, perhaps other areas in your life that you're not being fed in the same way too.
20:24.100
Alexia
Thank you.
20:25.77
Maddy
Maybe that might not be a reason, but it's still a thought. Yeah.
20:29.61
Rebecca
Yeah, I mean, I guess my question kind of leads on from that, which is, like, yes, if you were living like your best cry room life and, you know, you're like me turning up to church is practicing faithfulness because I'm not going hear anything.
20:43.44
Rebecca
What are the kind of small things, you know, like, yes, you can't be in full-time training and that's, you know, like, yes, God has called you to a ministry in the home.
20:54.26
Rebecca
Like, what are what is the middle ground between full-time study and not doing anything? Like, what kind of things... are like adding little deposits in the long run.
21:07.48
Alexia
Yeah, you talking training-wise? Yeah, because... Yeah.
21:09.100
Rebecca
Yeah, training wise, like ministry wise, like anything that's going to, you're like, if you're ultimately thinking I want to head towards vocational ministry later in life or seek out a paid ministry role, what are those kind of things that are going to be helpful to, you know, have a bit, give you a bit of confidence a bit later?
21:31.38
Alexia
m Well, I reckon like volunteer ministry-wise, like keep your head in the game with things like either leading a Bible study or meeting up with someone to read the Bible. Just keep doing the, like leading a Bible study is not small thing. I was about to call it a small thing. But those kind of things, I think, just keep your brain in gear and just serving others and keeping on top of that kind of thing. Because even leading a Bible study, if haven't done it for a while and then go back to it, that's really hard to get your confidence back to be able to do that.
22:02.87
Maddy
Hmm.
22:04.95
Alexia
like read things I think like read some good books so yeah don't like switch off your brain you can take things slow i think that's a way of training you don't need someone to necessarily give you all the input you can get it from books so yeah keep improving and learning yeah
22:04.94
Rebecca
Yeah, nice. We just...
22:24.45
Rebecca
Beautiful.
22:24.59
Maddy
Hmm.
22:25.57
Rebecca
Which I suppose kind of segues really nicely into our third question, which is what advice would you give to a woman who loves ministry and has thought about paid ministry? Have we covered most of it or there's different stuff?
22:36.80
Alexia
Yeah, no, I think probably Maddie alluded to this before, but the first thing I suppose you have to think about is your motivation for doing ministry. So if I was to start a conversation with anyone, that's got to be where you begin.
22:48.67
Rebecca
Hmm.
22:49.72
Alexia
Like why am i wanting to do ministry and why am I wanting to be paid for it? So you need to start with the first one first. Like why do I want to do ministry? Yeah. yeah, am I doing this as a response to what the Lord Jesus has done for me Am i wanting to see his kingdom grow? Am I wanting to see people grow in faith? Am I wanting to see people come to know him?
23:15.87
Rebecca
o
23:16.95
Alexia
You've really got to examine yourself and make sure you're not doing it because you think you have to You're not doing it because that's where you think your sense of identity should be. Yeah, get your motivations right.
23:28.93
Alexia
It has to be out of a a love for him and a love for people. So they're getting paid for it.
23:33.35
Maddy
Thank you.
23:36.18
Alexia
I suppose my philosophy would be actually you want to kind of maximise your ministry in your life no matter whether you get paid or not. So m
23:49.36
Alexia
whether that's in volunteer role, whether that's around the side, if you need to get paid, then Yes, you need to get a job to support yourself and do whatever ministry you can around that. But if you've got your whole life and you can devote it to ministry and someone's willing to support you and pay you for it, like why wouldn't you do that? So I suppose getting that that money thing in the right order I think is really important.
24:15.78
Alexia
Wanting to do ministry is the priority. Let's do it in such a way so I can do as much of it as I can. so that I can still live and have money to live on.
24:23.95
Maddy
Mm-hmm.
24:25.33
Alexia
and So I suppose after that, if you're really thinking like paid ministry is the way I want to go, like talk to someone who knows you really well. Like that would be the next step. Like your pastor, someone at church who you serve under, get someone's opinion on whether they think it's possible for you.
24:41.36
Alexia
That's if you're not in the lucky position of someone having tapped you on the shoulder. to kind of encourage you into ministry. Like actually go seek out someone's opinion. I think that would be a really helpful thing to do and especially at your own church. There's a great conference coming up in August called Challenge Conference. So yeah,
24:57.94
Alexia
That is a conference where people go to it if they're thinking about doing MTS, like the ministry apprenticeship. But you can go along to it without knowing much about MTS or the apprenticeship because you can sit down there, hear some great talks on going into ministry, and you can have an interview with someone in ministry where they can ask you questions about your life, where you might be heading, what you might need. That's that's a great conference to go to to meet other people who might be thinking similarly to you. Yeah.
25:24.67
Alexia
yeah That's run by PGP in Perth.
25:28.03
Rebecca
What is PGP?
25:28.99
Maddy
Awesome.
25:29.63
Alexia
our Perth Gospel Partner.
25:30.04
Rebecca
For those who don't know?
25:31.48
Alexia
Yeah, yeah.
25:31.96
Rebecca
Lovely.
25:33.18
Alexia
So like that that's one thing you can go to anyway to actually talk to people about whether paid ministry is for you. m If it really is, then I suppose you need to get some training. Do some ministry first, whether that's volunteer, whether that's an internship, whether that's an apprenticeship.
25:49.45
Alexia
like Get stuck into it. Give it a go. let You need to do that before you invest financially. and training because the next step, I suppose, is theological training.
25:55.32
Rebecca
Mmm.
26:01.04
Alexia
If you want to be in full-time vocational ministry, don't go into it without having your convictions and your foundations really solid. And that comes from doing some really serious study at Theological College. And that's an investment. That's doing a degree. That's coming and using your brain and sorting out all your questions and convictions and making sure you've got things straight. so Yeah, you need some questions sorted out before you come to college, but when you're there, like make the most of it, i use your time to study God's word and get your thinking straight.
26:34.89
Alexia
Yeah.
26:37.49
Alexia
Yeah. So that's probably the advice I'd give and that's kind of the default pathway.
26:38.23
Rebecca
Did you have a...
26:42.68
Alexia
And as we know, lots of life interruptions come in between those things. But, yeah, that's in general what I would say to people.
26:51.80
Maddy
I think that's really helpful as well that you reminded people that, yeah, that fallen that ministry, looking at ministry in a whole, not just in a vocational or non-vocational, but like, you know, in a paid or an unpaid role. But also even in those seasons when you are – you know, potentially doing, say, one day a week at church or doing something.
27:10.91
Maddy
It's actually not to lose sight of the opportunity if you still to give, you know, to still be volunteering with some areas, even if your role might be somewhere else. Not to burn out, but, you know, to still be offering part of your time or resources in a way that is going to build up the body of Christ in a really helpful way that, yeah, obviously doesn't burn you out or anything, but in in a way that is going to be beneficial.
27:18.46
Alexia
Yes.
27:32.14
Rebecca
you
27:32.49
Alexia
Yes.
27:36.71
Maddy
I think it's also, yeah, that was really helpful. The thing from personal experience, the thing that that stuck to me when I first started theology training, and I did the biblical theology and systematic theology unit. They're just two little half units that's like, what is biblical theology? What is systematic theology? And you just get a real rough overview of both. And I remember, I think it was Tom Bull.
27:58.38
Maddy
I think he actually said, like, theology is the only study
27:59.68
Rebecca
Yes.
28:02.72
Maddy
that you will have that requires personal change, that you your life should be impacted by what you learn. and Which is completely true.
28:22.47
Alexia
Thank you.
28:26.92
Maddy
but theology study, you should be learning and it should actually be impacting your heart and your life and how you live your life in service of God and also in service of other people as you grasp the various truths from the Bible and as you actually are, you know, considering what it means to be part of a church and what it means for us to be those who are saved by God completely not on our own merits and yeah As you deep dive into all the little theological issues or as you start reading the Bible a bit more deeply, this should actually change how you live, not just your brain.
28:41.43
Rebecca
Thank you.
29:05.34
Maddy
It's not an intellectual passing of information. It's a life kind of, it yeah, it should actually be changing you.
29:12.80
Rebecca
yeah i mean it's possible to practice as a clinical psych and your whole life be falling apart but you're like I've got this hour with you let's just hang out but you know you can't see the rest of my life and how what i'm saying is impacted by the rest of it but you think yeah if you're in ministry people are also watching your life and you know they live in the same suburb and they're like I've seen you I've seen you mate yelling at someone at the shops yeah
29:13.83
Maddy
Yeah.
29:49.71
Rebecca
Thank
29:53.52
Maddy
So, yeah, you just can't necessarily go about thinking about vocational ministry as just its own thing, like its own bubble. So that's also something worth talking to someone about, like Alexia said, that, hey, how is this, you know, my life, you know, how does vocational ministry kind of, How do you think it might go alongside my life as it is?
30:00.95
Alexia
that's
30:15.01
Maddy
Do you think there are things that need to either change or also, you know, am I at a life stage where vocational ministry will actually not be a helpful not be helpful thing for, say, my family? or yeah, it's just worth asking those questions, examining and just actually talking to people about it too.
30:34.35
Rebecca
Yeah. I mean, what I liked about what you said, Alexia, as well, is actually, would you be doing ministry anyway, even if you weren't getting paid for it?
30:35.42
Maddy
Yeah.
30:43.18
Rebecca
Like, is your life kind of shaped around that?
30:43.39
Alexia
yep i think that's totally the question yep i think that's definitely the question like i often ask myself that question for the work i do at trinity and yes i would totally be doing the work I'm doing i love it that much i was not paid so
30:43.73
Maddy
Yep.
30:46.15
Rebecca
Yeah. Yeah.
30:56.40
Rebecca
yeah
30:58.28
Alexia
Yeah, you should be asking that question of yourself. We're so we're servants of God. When we get paid, that is to, so we can eat and so we can live. It's not a measure of your identity or what you're worth. Yes, and ministry is service.
31:16.34
Alexia
Yeah, but you do need to be able to live.
31:17.08
Rebecca
yeah
31:29.42
Alexia
So you do need to take that into account. But as you're weighing things, yeah, would I do this job for free? Is this what I want to be doing with my life is serving Jesus, serving his people?
31:39.52
Rebecca
hmm
31:41.28
Alexia
Yeah, yeah.
31:42.70
Maddy
I had it framed to me as look, we'd love to, because someone like came to me and said they wanted to offer me a day a week employment opportunity through my church.
31:52.05
Maddy
And it was really helpful the way they framed it. They said, these are kind of things you're already doing. We would like to liberate your time so that you do them more.
31:59.68
Alexia
Yeah. Yeah.
32:01.60
Maddy
And it was actually just, I've never, it was such a helpful way to frame it that I've just never kind of gone back from that in my own thinking that being paid to do this is liberating my time so that I can commit this and dedicate this time to the ministry role that I've been given or like the works that I've been given and called to.
32:01.64
Rebecca
No.
32:21.01
Alexia
Yeah.
32:21.70
Maddy
So that a helpful way to frame it.
32:25.51
Alexia
And I think if you have that kind of idea in mind as well, you know that your training is never going to be a waste. So even if you don't know what's going to happen in life, even if you don't get a paid job later, like doing an internship or an apprenticeship at church, that's not going to be a waste.
32:39.94
Alexia
You're always going to be using that training for whatever volunteer ministry you'll find yourself in later in life.
32:42.69
Rebecca
Oh
32:44.79
Maddy
Okay.
32:45.41
Rebecca
oh man, I learned so much Bible, I'm never gonna use that now.
32:48.48
Alexia
Yeah, that's right. You can come and do things at Trinity that are not a like a three-year degree. You can do things part-time. You can come and do something like Trinity Equip, which is like an unaccredited course, doesn't have the same assignments, study load, but you're still getting some training in Bible teaching and ministry skills.
33:10.61
Alexia
Yeah, there are many things you can do that will grow you. and the way you serve others, yeah, that won't be a waste later on, even if you don't know kind of job or no job you might end up with, yeah.
33:21.48
Maddy
Yeah.
33:24.07
Rebecca
I love that.
33:24.27
Maddy
They also do like Trinity at night courses, which is just like six week little courses that are really good too. So yeah.
33:29.52
Alexia
Yeah, totally, bite-sized. You can just jump in when you're not.
33:34.96
Rebecca
so
33:38.37
Maddy
And that's related to women who are in WA, but perhaps don't live in Perth. What kind of options would you, Alexia, recommend to women who live in either rural or remote WA?
33:47.89
Maddy
How might they get trained up? And what does Trinity provide? Are there any good options you might recommend otherwise?
33:55.52
Alexia
Yeah, I found this question really hard because I actually am feeling for women and people who want to do volunteer ministry, I suppose, be better trained in rural and remote WA because I don't think there are a whole heap of options. Yeah, to come and be better trained. I mean, first of all, yeah, your church can do this. Your church pastor has been trained. He can train others. So, yeah, have a chat to them.
34:18.92
Alexia
and But Trinity doesn't offer things online. I think there's really good reason for that, especially if you're coming to do a three-year degree and you wanted to go into vocational ministry.
34:30.02
Alexia
i don't think you can be trained for vocational ministry online. I think you need to be able to see the lecturers and see their lives and interact them and know what they're like. And they need to be able to see you So they need to be able to see you changing, absorbing, knowing you and your character.
34:47.97
Alexia
i think it kind of ties into what you were saying, Maddie, about theological study changing you. a
34:53.56
Rebecca
Hmm.
34:54.65
Alexia
i don't think that's a great fit if you're doing that online and no one can see what has been produced in you by the end of it. You can hide online. and You can't hide in the Trinity community.
35:06.01
Rebecca
Hmm.
35:06.94
Alexia
That's another reason I think to come and do it in person is all the other students that you get to meet bounce ideas off and they are going to be your support through ministry in life.
35:10.49
Maddy
Thank you.
35:17.10
Alexia
The people that you meet at college, they're going to be your peers.
35:18.30
Rebecca
Hmm.
35:21.12
Alexia
They're going to be who you're going to be able to turn to later on. If you don't come and do it in person, you won't ever get that. So saying that, I think there should be some scope for people who aren't going to, say, full-time vocational ministry to be able to do some kind of training online because there's no way that someone who wants to be better equipped in volunteer ministry is going to move up to Perth to come and do study. You just, life probably won't allow for that. Yeah.
35:46.63
Alexia
So and we do offer some Trinity in town. So that's the Trinity at night courses actually come and visit the regional areas and do you like a Trinity at night course in a day.
35:54.19
Rebecca
Oh wow.
35:55.95
Alexia
So they've often run them in Geraldton or in Albany or some of the other regional centers. I had three women come from Bunbury and do Trinity Equip.
36:05.34
Alexia
And so I think Bunbury is probably about the furthest you'd probably want to come from to be able to travel up needed to do that.
36:06.88
Maddy
Awesome.
36:12.80
Alexia
and
36:13.27
Maddy
That's awesome.
36:14.03
Alexia
Yeah, they would come on a Sunday afternoon, see family in Perth, then come to a Trinity Equip on Monday morning and then head home. So I suppose, yeah, we were really fortunate to have them and that they were close enough to be able to do that.
36:27.68
Alexia
and I have one lady who comes up from Rockingham, so that's probably the furthest away we've got at the moment. But any further than that, yeah, I think it's really hard to, yeah, find some good training online.
36:39.52
Alexia
Yeah.
36:40.64
Rebecca
just as a point of interest. So my mother-in-law is in a small country town and her husband is a pastor. And she said that she did the one year Moore Theological College, but back in the days where they did it via correspondence.
36:52.44
Rebecca
And she was like, it was just stretching.
36:53.31
Alexia
thanks
36:55.55
Rebecca Fergie
Like, yeah.
36:56.13
Alexia
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. that That is a great course to do. Yes. it was I don't know if they offer that anymore. Yeah. and There is, of course, if you live down in the Great Southern, there is the, in Albany, they run the certificate level internship and training program.
37:02.60
Rebecca
I think they do. I think they
37:10.39
Alexia
So that is a really great thing that the churches in Albany have done for the wider regional area where you can actually go get some more training. Yeah.
37:21.13
Maddy
That's awesome.
37:21.09
Rebecca
there's so many lovely there's so many theological like trinity theological graduates yeah around that area it's really lovely to see which i suppose is that outworking of what you were saying which is like come and be trained here because these guys these people will be your network yeah yeah
37:29.07
Maddy
Yeah, is good.
37:36.87
Alexia
Yeah, definitely.
37:40.44
Rebecca
o
37:41.04
Maddy
Bec, I have a question that you can cut if you want to.
37:42.11
Rebecca
Oh, yes.
37:45.02
Maddy
But Bec, I have a question.
37:45.15
Rebecca
o No, Hadid.
37:47.96
Maddy
you did get tapped on the shoulder and asked if you wanted to do some sort of training and potential.
37:55.26
Rebecca
Twice, actually. Three times. don't want to brag.
37:57.08
Maddy
Yes, yes, you did get tapped on the shoulder. And, you know, yeah, yeah, just people just want you.
37:59.88
Rebecca
I'm super humble. It's hard. It's hard being this humble.
38:04.16
Maddy
It's great.
38:04.67
Rebecca
They do. Look, it's hard being popular.
38:05.63
Maddy
So...
38:08.84
Alexia
I love where this question is going.
38:09.02
Maddy
Look, I have a question for you.
38:13.45
Rebecca
No, I'm just taking it as all as like compliments. Yes, question, yes.
38:16.44
Maddy
It's, you sometimes there are good reasons to say no to a vocational role or, you know, to something like that. And I feel like you had some yeah had some good reasons.
38:24.54
Rebecca
did.
38:27.27
Maddy
And so I was wanting for you said no to doing further study.
38:32.41
Rebecca
a
38:33.28
Maddy
And why did you say no?
38:33.28
Rebecca
indeed
38:38.33
Rebecca
the first time I said no I was at Prov church and they were like come along we think you'd be good at vocational ministry and at the time I was I was like I'm studying clinical I can't. Mate you know I want to get into Clin and maybe I'll do it afterwards and at the time I was like that's where I was going look
38:47.01
Alexia
Thank
38:55.23
Rebecca
It's not for the weak. You do like four-year degree and then you have to do like a lot of intensive study. Like a lot. I had to go off and do other jobs so that I could get enough experience to apply for the master's degree. So I went off and worked in the prisons for a while, I worked in child protection. I was like, i have enough experience to apply. I think there was something like 250 applicants and they take 20.
39:34.90
Alexia
Bye.
39:34.100
Rebecca
like I liked running women's Bible studies. I got tapped a second time at our other church, the church we are now. And similarly to you, Maddie, they're kind of will like, look, we can see that you're already doing a lot.
39:46.82
Rebecca
So I was running a women's Bible study and I coordinated the play group, which was like a team of 16 women. But at that point, and then I had also gone back to work and I just was like, I can't in good conscience do any more things. I like, I had two kids.
40:03.92
Rebecca
and finished commitment I was running a women's Bible study in my house. That was a lot. You know, i kind of, someone had to do the laundry and the cooking. So at the time i was like, I can't, like I just,
40:16.19
Rebecca
as I was like, and I was an apprentice. Once you've got your clinical masters, you then have to go through an apprenticeship after that to be supervised by someone. So I was like, I'm also still an apprentice.
40:25.62
Alexia
Thank you.
40:26.50
Rebecca Fergie
So for me at that point, I was like, I can't add any more things. I can't. And they were like, you know, stop being a clinical psych and you should do ministry.
40:37.84
Rebecca Fergie
At that time, it was a no. And yet here I am. I'm like, now I have had a third baby and I'm like still... Doing stuff, running Stories, having a good time. So, you know, I don't know.
40:49.89
Rebecca Fergie
I'm like, I'm not.
40:50.48
Maddy
and It's kind of cool.
40:50.61
Rebecca Fergie
hurting
40:52.74
Maddy
You've been kind of equipped along the way, right? Like, you know, you've been meeting with people. It's like been a real, like a growth journey. It's not like you're being, you're not, you've not had any training either. Like you've actually had this kind of informal way that you've grown and trained into these vocational roles.
41:08.37
Maddy
But yeah, it's just, been I just thought it was interesting considering the topic we've got, how we've got someone who has actually said no.
41:15.81
Alexia
Yes.
41:17.11
Maddy
And it's okay to say no sometimes, like when you, when you weigh up where your life is at.
41:17.42
Rebecca
I just, yeah. I mean, also what Alexia said, to be fair, like when I talked with my husband, so my husband knows me and, you loves me obviously. And he was like, one thing that he did say, because he knows me, he was like, look, a thing to consider is at the moment, you know, you're doing ministry stuff because you love to do it and you enjoy it. But also when you get bored,
41:44.92
Rebecca
or, you know, you are not enjoying that, like, you know what i mean Say you want to move on from running this particular ministry. If you're on staff, you won't be able to.
41:56.72
Rebecca
Which, you know what i mean? Like is probably fits well with my personality. Now I'm doing this and I love this and I love interviewing and I love, all the writing and all of that. And I don't know, who knows what may happen with it, but I'm having a good time.
42:44.16
Alexia
I feel like I'd like to have a coffee
42:47.30
Rebecca
Let’s be friends!
42:51.04
Alexia
And we can continue the ministry pathway conversation. Yeah.
42:56.40
Rebecca
This has become an intervention, hasn’t it? They're like, you've been tapped three times.
43:00.88
Maddy
Yeah. The call is coming.
43:03.41
Rebecca
the call
43:07.38
Maddy
Anyway, that was a little bit, that wasn't in Bec's plans for this episode. So I threw her under the bus. but Include or not include?
43:12.04
Rebecca
definitely not in my plans, I was like, I don't know, I'm just I'm here to facilitate. Yes brilliant well so Alexia coming back to you as our special guest if women do want to get in contact with you and like kind of have that coffee or like chat on the you know what I mean what would be the best way for them to kind of get in contact with you
43:19.37
Maddy
Yep.
43:33.46
Alexia
Yeah, well, probably the easiest way is through Trinity Theological College. So you can totally email them, ring them. If you're interested in ministry, haven't thought about it before, or you have and you've got questions, I might not have all the answers, but I would love to have a chat to you.
43:49.88
Alexia
So, yep, come and have a coffee with me.
43:51.87
Rebecca
Really.
43:53.58
Alexia
and But I would recommend that Challenge Conference if, like, the thought of doing ministry is new to you, then that is a really great place to explore it and with lots of other people who have wisdom to offer.
44:05.74
Rebecca
That's brilliant.
44:06.12
Maddy
Awesome.
44:06.10
Rebecca
Thank you so much. I just love like actually kind of where it's gone. Like there are multiple things to consider for women in ministry. Like it might be a life stage, but it's also like, you know, your gifts and talents and being able to see other women doing things in a way that like you might want to do, but also being able to find like if that's not available to you in your church.
44:28.48
Rebecca
Like I love those links of like Trinity Equip, like Challenge Conference, MTS, like Perth Gospel Partnerships. And Trinity at night, like I will link all of those in the show notes because I think those are like nice jumping off points for even if you can't see it in your church, like there are other options for you.
44:48.88
Rebecca
brilliant Yeah. All right.
44:49.45
Alexia
Yeah.
44:49.72
Rebecca
Thank you so much, Alexia. I really appreciate that.
44:53.30
Alexia
Yeah. Thanks for the chat. it was great. Thanks for having me.